Current Affairs The benefits of Brexit Page

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One even might even say that the chickens are coming home to roost.
The biggest beneficiaries of this subsidiary are those farms in Newham, such as Tate and Lyle etc.

Being self sufficient in food is incredibly important for any country wanting to be independent. And food security as outlined by many reports by UN and NATO is increasingly important and concerning, forget milatray interventions over oil and dollor. Those having a dig at the UK farming community is like punching oneself in the stomach...
 
It's weird that people keep on typing ( mostly in a bubble ) to themselves about Brexit on here.

It's done, I wish it hadn't been, but it is, and typing to each other to show how much better educated or informed than those that voted to leave will change [4 letter word] all.

Regardless of how much Brexit may be negatively affecting you and your nearest and dearest, it's just one of many, many things you have no control of, so try to concentrate on things you can actually influence.
Nah, the stupid must be reminded of their stupid decisons otherwise we end up with a polulation of stupids that vote for stupid things.
 
It's another flawed and misleading report that doesn't tell the whole picture mate. I'll give it some scrutiny when I get a chance.

People just throw any old report in here so long as it portrays Brexit in a bad light.
What we are short of is any old reports showing Brexit in a good light, which was the point of the thread.
 
Gets better and better all this.
Don't let the article headlines fool you mate. Coming out of the EU Common Agricultural Policy is a good thing. The headlines are slightly misleading. And you need to look behind the subsidy payments and see who is actually benefitting from them. It isn't always the actual farmer.

Firstly you need to look at the word income in the headline. If you consider a business's income, you normally relate it to sales, but that isn't the case here. For instance the current annual GVA (essentially farm sales income less VAT and not including subsidies) for UK farming is around £10bn. Including EU subsidies that would be £13.5bn. So subsidies are around 25% of that. The income figures they are referring to in the article is the TIFF, or total income from farming, also referenced on the Government website as return on capital for entrepreneurs. In other words Profit. TIFF for UK farms in 2019 is forecast to be £5.6bn, so £3.5bn in subsidies is just under two thirds. Now for the small holder, who will likely be set up as a sole trader or partnership, they will need to take their own personal income out of this. But the larger farms will be limited companies or even trusts, and all salaries will have already been accounted for. So all the profit is available for dividends for the fat cats then.

You then need to look at who actually receives the subsidies. You would think it would be the farmers, and for the most part you would be right. But many of our small farms are tenanted and invariably these subsidies wind up in the landlords coffers via their rents. Subsidies are paid by the hectare so the bigger the farm the bigger the subsidy. The average subsidy for our farmers is around £28k, but many small holders only receive around £10k, with the really big earners getting close on £500k. Large amounts of these total subsidies relate to land that isn't even farmed. Hard to believe I know. It dates back to the nineties when many of our farms were paid "not to farm" their lands in a bid to try and control the level of farm goods being produced. I believe at one stage 1600 farms were on the scheme. The EU discontinued this in 2008 but I'm reliably informed that it is not well policed and many farmers still take subsidies without farming the land. Tens of thousands of acres of perfectly good farmland are believed to be unworked at present whilst the landowners happily live off the subsidies, which is shocking.

A recent survey has shown that around 40% of farmers have said they would make a loss if the subsidies stopped, the vast majority of these being small holdings. Most of the larger ones are already making big profits, even without the subsidies. The farms claiming subsidies of £20k or less will only have a reduction of 5% in 2021. The biggest reduction of 25% will only apply to those getting subsidies of over £150k, and most of these are already making big profits anyway and don't rely on these subsidies. In fact 80% of the UK subsidies goes to the largest 20% of land owners. Of the biggest claimants, 20% are billionaires and multi millionaires listed in the Times UK rich list and it's pretty much the same all over Europe. The CAP has become an annual handout to Europe's elite, and is not fit for purpose.

It is also widely accepted that these subsidies have led to an inflated valuation of agricultural land, with a correlated knock on effect on tenants rents. Prices peaked in 2016, and have been slowly reducing annually since then in the knowledge that when we leave the EU these subsidies will be reviewed and, for many, stopped. Reduced land values (and consequently land rents) are bad for the fat cats, but good for the vast majority of UK farmers, many of who are young tenants, possibly looking to buy their first pieces of land.

There is no doubt that Brexit will bring many challenges to our farming community, mostly surrounding potential tariffs in the event of a no deal, and also the potential for cheaper poorer quality imports, but fingers crossed that neither of these actually happen. But coming out of the EU Common Agricultural Policy has to be seen as a benefit for everybody linked to farming other than the ones that can afford it.

The new bill is not that bad on the whole. I'd rather that there were no planned reductions in subsidies at all for the smaller farms, but hopefully the majority will be able to absorb the 5% somehow. But 80% of the subsidies go to large business's that don't need it. Subsidies will now become an incentive/reward for farmers to do more for the environment and to farm in a more organic and environmentally manner. It will also reduce land prices which will have a knock on effect on tenants rents. They're good things aren't they?.

Also look at the savings that can be made. For the £3.5bn the UK receives from CAP, it is estimated that we contribute between £5bn and £6bn annually into the EU CAP coffers. So the UK will have the opportunity to spend that £5/6bn on the countryside, in theory at least. From 2021 the £3.5bn annual subsidy bill will start coming down, so more and more money will be available to spend on things like the environment, on protecting against storm damage, on providing grants to get new farmers to come into the business and start farming the multitude of farmland that is currently sitting there untouched. Once the current landowners stop getting their annual "interest" payments, they'll be pretty keen to either start farming it themselves or sell/lease the land to somebody who wants to. If not all of the £5/6bn is spent on the countryside, then it will go towards the extras being spent on health, schools, policing and infrastructure.

The NFU are looking after their own, as you would expect them to do. But this bill is being painted as another example of this Tory government right wing policies and another reason why Brexit is bad for the country. But that's wrong on both counts. The Tory fat cats are the big losers here (not that it will effect them in any way) and we are definitely better off out of the CAP rather than in it.
 
Missing a trick not putting arsenic in this. Would raise the average IQ of the country very quickly
Let's bring back the death penalty.

No, that's barbaric and would be a total violation of human rights.

Okay. Let's just bring back the death penalty for Tory scum and Brexit voters then.

That sounds like a plan.;)
 
What we are short of is any old reports showing Brexit in a good light, which was the point of the thread.
Don't let the article headlines fool you mate. Coming out of the EU Common Agricultural Policy is a good thing. The headlines are slightly misleading. And you need to look behind the subsidy payments and see who is actually benefitting from them. It isn't always the actual farmer.

Firstly you need to look at the word income in the headline. If you consider a business's income, you normally relate it to sales, but that isn't the case here. For instance the current annual GVA (essentially farm sales income less VAT and not including subsidies) for UK farming is around £10bn. Including EU subsidies that would be £13.5bn. So subsidies are around 25% of that. The income figures they are referring to in the article is the TIFF, or total income from farming, also referenced on the Government website as return on capital for entrepreneurs. In other words Profit. TIFF for UK farms in 2019 is forecast to be £5.6bn, so £3.5bn in subsidies is just under two thirds. Now for the small holder, who will likely be set up as a sole trader or partnership, they will need to take their own personal income out of this. But the larger farms will be limited companies or even trusts, and all salaries will have already been accounted for. So all the profit is available for dividends for the fat cats then.

You then need to look at who actually receives the subsidies. You would think it would be the farmers, and for the most part you would be right. But many of our small farms are tenanted and invariably these subsidies wind up in the landlords coffers via their rents. Subsidies are paid by the hectare so the bigger the farm the bigger the subsidy. The average subsidy for our farmers is around £28k, but many small holders only receive around £10k, with the really big earners getting close on £500k. Large amounts of these total subsidies relate to land that isn't even farmed. Hard to believe I know. It dates back to the nineties when many of our farms were paid "not to farm" their lands in a bid to try and control the level of farm goods being produced. I believe at one stage 1600 farms were on the scheme. The EU discontinued this in 2008 but I'm reliably informed that it is not well policed and many farmers still take subsidies without farming the land. Tens of thousands of acres of perfectly good farmland are believed to be unworked at present whilst the landowners happily live off the subsidies, which is shocking.

A recent survey has shown that around 40% of farmers have said they would make a loss if the subsidies stopped, the vast majority of these being small holdings. Most of the larger ones are already making big profits, even without the subsidies. The farms claiming subsidies of £20k or less will only have a reduction of 5% in 2021. The biggest reduction of 25% will only apply to those getting subsidies of over £150k, and most of these are already making big profits anyway and don't rely on these subsidies. In fact 80% of the UK subsidies goes to the largest 20% of land owners. Of the biggest claimants, 20% are billionaires and multi millionaires listed in the Times UK rich list and it's pretty much the same all over Europe. The CAP has become an annual handout to Europe's elite, and is not fit for purpose.

It is also widely accepted that these subsidies have led to an inflated valuation of agricultural land, with a correlated knock on effect on tenants rents. Prices peaked in 2016, and have been slowly reducing annually since then in the knowledge that when we leave the EU these subsidies will be reviewed and, for many, stopped. Reduced land values (and consequently land rents) are bad for the fat cats, but good for the vast majority of UK farmers, many of who are young tenants, possibly looking to buy their first pieces of land.

There is no doubt that Brexit will bring many challenges to our farming community, mostly surrounding potential tariffs in the event of a no deal, and also the potential for cheaper poorer quality imports, but fingers crossed that neither of these actually happen. But coming out of the EU Common Agricultural Policy has to be seen as a benefit for everybody linked to farming other than the ones that can afford it.

The new bill is not that bad on the whole. I'd rather that there were no planned reductions in subsidies at all for the smaller farms, but hopefully the majority will be able to absorb the 5% somehow. But 80% of the subsidies go to large business's that don't need it. Subsidies will now become an incentive/reward for farmers to do more for the environment and to farm in a more organic and environmentally manner. It will also reduce land prices which will have a knock on effect on tenants rents. They're good things aren't they?.

Also look at the savings that can be made. For the £3.5bn the UK receives from CAP, it is estimated that we contribute between £5bn and £6bn annually into the EU CAP coffers. So the UK will have the opportunity to spend that £5/6bn on the countryside, in theory at least. From 2021 the £3.5bn annual subsidy bill will start coming down, so more and more money will be available to spend on things like the environment, on protecting against storm damage, on providing grants to get new farmers to come into the business and start farming the multitude of farmland that is currently sitting there untouched. Once the current landowners stop getting their annual "interest" payments, they'll be pretty keen to either start farming it themselves or sell/lease the land to somebody who wants to. If not all of the £5/6bn is spent on the countryside, then it will go towards the extras being spent on health, schools, policing and infrastructure.

The NFU are looking after their own, as you would expect them to do. But this bill is being painted as another example of this Tory government right wing policies and another reason why Brexit is bad for the country. But that's wrong on both counts. The Tory fat cats are the big losers here (not that it will effect them in any way) and we are definitely better off out of the CAP rather than in it.
 
There is no doubt that Brexit will bring many challenges to our farming community, mostly surrounding potential tariffs in the event of a no deal, and also the potential for cheaper poorer quality imports, but fingers crossed that neither of these actually happen.
we are definitely better off out of the CAP rather than in it.

So fingers crossed we will definitely better off then. Ok, thats me on board.
 
Think Fred missed the tone of your post there Roydo
Yes. Indeed I did.

8 long paragraphs of why CAP is bad. Backed up with evidence and reasoning.

One sentence of honest concern about the potential downside to our farmers of Brexit, none of which has yet happened and may never.

Guess which he focus's on. And you wonder why we don't post in here.

I'll not bother in future. Other than to pull apart some of the ridiculous links that are posted in here.
 
The leader of brexit ladies and gents, a man without either the aptitude nor intelligence to pass judgement on the processes he atrempts to influence for profit. How can anyone be taken seriously on the matter unless the denounce this fraud?
 
I don't think anyone can suggest the CAP cannot be improved, or improved upon. There does not yet seem to be a plan for what replaces it though.

One achievement of the CAP has been to keep small farms in business across Europe. If only the big boys can do it, there will be bigger farms, bigger fields, bigger machines, less employment, fewer hedgerows, a trend towards more intensive animal husbandry and a real change in the rural landscape, and not for the better.
I am not convinced that reform of the CAP could not have been achieved with us in the EU.
I had no objection to our subsidising poorer countries, but I can see there is reasonable scope to differ.
There is potential to make the CAP's replacement better, but I am not absolutely confident there is a plan or a will or a capacity in the Johnson government to do better. I hope so.

Good to have a reasoned answer though ;)

[P.S @Barnfred 55 don't stop posting. Raising the standard of debate and exchange of information must be a good thing]
 
"We no longer pay in to Brussels, we're saving that money for our NHS! Take back control!"


... oh.

Oh well, at least we have blue passports.
We really are a big bunch of boneheads. I wouldn't be surprised if had hurt the rest of the EU in the pocket too.

None of that is a benefit however. :(
 
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