Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[PhilM]

You have absolutely no evidence of any of that. Literally none.

Nor does it allow anyone to resist arrest, which in itself is an offence - or at least it is here in the UK. People have a legal duty to comply and that's often ignored.

However, and it's a big however, that's not saying what they did was correct. But to label something as racist because one party was black is incorrect in itself.

Was it racist? I don't know and nor does anyone here based on the evidence provided. People can assume, which they can do, but it's not a fact.

 

[Tubey]

you have no evidence he was going for a weapon. Doesnt stop you.

I have evidence he's reaching for a concealed area in direct contravention of a police order. And that a knife was subsequently found.

 

[PhilM]

So a police officer has no training/ability to incapacitate someone from a couple of feet away that isn't 7 shots to the back?

Seven shots to the back is excessive in my opinion, but in the legal sense as @Tubey has mentioned a person can use the force that they feel appropriate...

... as long as they can justify it within the context of the event. Can he do that? I'm not sure, but there are cases when one or two rounds aren't enough.

I suspect that he will argue that he used x-rounds to ensure that the threat was removed, and it'll be up to the prosecutors to device - there isn't a set number!

But if we're talking about training of where to shoot, I'm not being facetious but it isn't like the Westerns or the films: you shoot to disable them and not to miss.

One stray round or one that passes through the arm etc (less mass.) could easily ricochet off the metal work or you could miss and kill or injure a bystander.

Therefore, you are trained to shoot the largest mass to reduce the chance of this. Does that mean he should have shot him? Personally, no... but he has.

As such, I'm simply explaining how or why he may have done what he has done. For me, there were far more suitable options than deciding to shoot him...

... whether he was justified in doing so or not.

 

[Tubey]

Nor does it allow anyone to resist arrest, which in itself is an offence - or at least it is here in the UK. People have a legal duty to comply and that's often ignored.

However, and it's a big however, that's not saying what they did was correct. But to label something as racist because one party was black is incorrect in itself.

Was it racist? I don't know and nor does anyone here based on the evidence provided. People can assume, which they can do, but it's not a fact.

There's more evidence it wasn't racist than it was. If it were racist, they wouldn't have tried a taser - they'd have grabbed him, beaten him up and executed him on the ground or let him up so he could run then shoot him.

What nobody can answer is this - if that video ended with the cop not shooting and the suspect grabbing a gun and killing the cop, we'd all be saying why didn't the cop shoot. There's a reason for that.

 

[Nymzee]

Not even sure why I bother with this thread. Makes me slap my face awake every 5 minutes.

 

[Ruairi77]

I have evidence he's reaching for a concealed area in direct contravention of a police order. And that a knife was subsequently found.

and I have evidence that an unarmed black man was shot 7 times in the back by a white cop.

also, are you now trying to argue that there's no institutional racism is US police departments?

 

[Tubey]

Seven shots to the back is excessive in my opinion, but in the legal sense as @Tubey has mentioned a person can use the force that they feel appropriate...

... as long as they can justify it within the context of the event. Can he do that? I'm not sure, but there are cases when one or two rounds aren't enough.

I suspect that he will argue that he used x-rounds to ensure that the threat was removed, and it'll be up to the prosecutors to device - there isn't a set number!

But if we're talking about training of where to shoot, I'm not being facetious but it isn't like the Westerns or the films: you shoot to disable them and not to miss.

One stray round or one that passes through the arm etc (less mass.) could easily ricochet off the metal work or you could miss and kill or injure a bystander.

Therefore, you are trained to shoot the largest mass to reduce the chance of this. Does that mean he should have shot him? Personally, no... but he has.

As such, I'm simply explaining how or why he may have done what he has done. For me, there were far more suitable options than deciding to shoot him...

... where he was justified in doing so or not.

Indeed. People on here are acting like the cop could enter a Fallout 4 VATS system and bullet time accuracy. It's ridiculous.

 

[Tubey]

and I have evidence that an unarmed black man was shot 7 times in the back by a white cop.

Sounds bang to rights that doesn't it, just as your bias wants it to - because you don't mention resisting a taser, ignoring police instructions and reaching into a concealed area.

 

[Nymzee]

Indeed. People on here are acting like the cop could enter a Fallout 4 VATS system and bullet time accuracy. It's ridiculous.

How accurate do you need to be from a foot away? They’re highly trained cops. Even I could aim at somewhere that wasn’t the back from that distance and I’ve only used one a few times.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Nor does it allow anyone to resist arrest, which in itself is an offence - or at least it is here in the UK. People have a legal duty to comply and that's often ignored.

However, and it's a big however, that's not saying what they did was correct. But to label something as racist because one party was black is incorrect in itself.

Was it racist? I don't know and nor does anyone here based on the evidence provided. People can assume, which they can do, but it's not a fact.

A lot of people seem to miss the point just like you have here. Policing in America is a racist institution. These events are the triggers and not the whole problem. Yes people get most angry when it escalates into the police shooting unarmed black men but the constant harassment and targeting builds up anger and resentment that is being let out when it escalates. Looking at "was he being racist at this precise moment?" misses the forest for the trees.

 

[Ruairi77]

Sounds bang to rights that doesn't it, just as your bias wants it to - because you don't mention resisting a taser, ignoring police instructions and reaching into a concealed area.

you're assuming he was going for a weapon,
I'm assuming institutional racism in the police dept. had a part to play in the shooting.
Have you seen the eugenics video this cops sheriff posted?

 

[Ruairi77]

A lot of people seem to miss the point just like you have here. Policing in America is a racist institution. These events are the triggers and not the whole problem. Yes people get most angry when it escalates into the police shooting unarmed black men but the constant harassment and targeting builds up anger and resentment that is being let out when it escalates. Looking at "was he being racist at this precise moment?" misses the forest for the trees.

great post.
It also plays in to why he resisted arrest.
A white person in this situation is less likely to A) be arrested and B) if arrested, resist.

 

[PhilM]

A lot of people seem to miss the point just like you have here. Policing in America is a racist institution. These events are the triggers and not the whole problem. Yes people get most angry when it escalates into the police shooting unarmed black men but the constant harassment and targeting builds up anger and resentment that is being let out when it escalates. Looking at "was he being racist at this precise moment?" misses the forest for the trees.

I agree with you regarding the US police and justice system having institutional racism, yet I do think it's important that we don't tar everyone with the same brush.*

Regardless of the macro politics and situations, you have to look at the micro situation in the context of itself (micro) and the (macro) with equal balance.

First and foremost, did that office shoot him because of either conscious or subconscious racism? Did it play a part in their decision before hand? I don't know!

If we're jumping into the realms of instantly siding with the belief that they were, well I think that's got its own dangers without being ignorant of the real racism.

*Maybe not the best saying any more when I think about it.

great post.
It also plays in to why he resisted arrest.
A white person in this situation is less likely to A) be arrested and B) if arrested, resist.

But, it can't be an unbalanced justification for resisting arrest and used almost as an excuse. "The police are racist, so I can resist" doesn't fathom in my mind.

For the reasons above.

 

[Ruairi77]

Common sense ain't it? Everyone pretending this isn't the reality is making out like the "victim" was completely innocent and just randomly shot in the back.

nobody thinks the victim is innocent, most right minded people dont think he deserved 7 shots in the back.
They were serving a warrant for disorderly conduct, not homicide.
And look at the treatment the same cops gave a white kid with an AR 15 feet from two people he shot.

Unarmed black guy gets shot in the back 7 times for resisiting a misdemeanor charge.
Heavily armed white kids walks past cops at the seen of a double homicide.

The cops boss blames the protestors, the same sheriff who promoted eugenics as a crime solution.
Institutional racism.

 

[Ruairi77]

But, it can't be an unbalanced justification for resisting arrest and used almost as an excuse. "The police are racist, so I can resist" doesn't fathom in my mind.

It could be an excuse, and if it is an excuse, the cops have to ask themselves how this came to be an excuse.
Or, it could be a situation of, if I get arrested for this, it'll be the third bull crap misdemeanor I've gotten in x time. I'm fairly sure the police report will embellish the facts and if I go before a judge in this town, I'll be given time. I don't have the bail money to get out pre-trial and I can't afford good representation, so my 3 kids go with out a dad for 6 months and then I cant get a decent job ever again because of my record.
He's probably not thinking quite that but they are definitely factors that might cause someone to act irrationally and not obey orders.
Also, it's hard to take orders from someone you don't respect.