Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[PhilM]

Well it'd be like in the UK if you got attacked on the street and stabbed your attacker with a knife.

It's not reasonable force because you'd have used an knife you shouldn't have on you.

So with the gun being illegal, I think it's... Hmm... Manslaughter I'd guess.

In the vast majority of cases yes...

But again it really does depend on the individual circumstances: as long as you can justify it as a reasonable use of force to a sustained threat to life.*

It’s not always that clear cut here hence why I was asking about the US legal position. At least, it doesn’t help his position in the slightest.

*Happy to discuss that else where or another time.

 

[Ruairi77]

13% of the country is black, 14.6% are stopped and searched. You'd think by the way the media act it's only blacks that are stopped.

ok, now do a prison population comparison.
Google what redlining is.
Check out college admissions.
Check out how the high school system works,
how local tax bases determine school quality,
but the black communities cant prosper because the banks rarely give them small business loans and they can't move because of redlining.
Your neighborhood has no tax base so you have no/crap public transit, you can't afford a car and if you have a car, you struggle to afford to run it. But you depend on it because all the supermarkets have shut down.

Now you're trapped in a blighted community with little or no way out and the local justice department needs to fill their quota for their private prison. You get arrested for weed but cant afford bail or decent representation so you are held indefinitely as a trial date isn't set and a trial date isn't set because the private prison industry needs you in their jail.
Every time black people try to live the American dream, they are stepped on, often by those who are supposed to serve and protect.

You find yourself passing a forged 20 to buy cigarettes because life is crap and the cops react by killing you.
They've just spent all day feeling victimized because they are members of 20 blue lives matters groups on FB and they love the punisher.
There's a high chance some of the cops have been booted off other forces for nasty crap but they cant be fired because of the union and immunity so they just get shuffled around.

So I don't know what the situation is like in the UK but here, the root cause of all of this is racism and a major reason it's escalating is because the president is enabling white supremacists.

If you really want to learn a bit about this,
watch "the 13th" on netflix.

 

[Mr. White]

ok
a minor carrying an illegally held weapon traveled from out of state knowingly breaking curfew, got caught up in trouble and in a panic, shot and killed two people.
Thats the fairest I can be to him, not great is it?

Here's a hypothetical situation.
A bunch of white dudes celebrate the Eagles superbowl win in Philly by burning and looting stuff, a black kid is sick of their crap so he gets an illegal gun, goes out of his way to find the mob and gets in to a fight with them, he kills a couple of them because he gets scared. Do you think he gets the 'self defense' treatment? Do you think he gets to walk off the murder scene, long gun in hand waving at the cops?

When the state can't protect people and businesses, citizens will. I remember it happened here when the London riots spread out across the country. Groups of men formed to protect shops and businesses. The difference was they didn't have guns. Nobody here thought there was a sinister motive in doing this.

By the way, " He then gets in to a skirmish with unarmed protesters, kills two, injures two more"....

Watch the video. He is being chased down the street by a mob. That is not a skirmish.

Anything can be a weapon if it's intended to do harm. A skateboard is a weapon if it's being used to hit somebody over the head. So, saying that an 'unarmed protester was shot' is categorically untrue.

And, immediately after, he tried to hand himself into police. As they were all in AFV's, they probably couldn't hear him. Again, watch the footage.

 

[Ruairi77]

But again, does that negate his right to self-defence? I’m really not agreeing with what he’s done, but in a purely a legal sense does it remove his right?

He’s a minor, he’s been condoned by the police (per the curfew), had tried to flee and was under attack is how his defence I presume will spin it.

The events prior (first shooting) will obviously play a part in the wider proceedings and may undermine all this, but they’re valid questions to ask.

As others have said, the real catalyst for this tragic event is the lax gun laws, toxic culture and underlying racism.

I take that but I'd argue that it's clear that he went out of his way looking for trouble so it's not a case of self defense.

 

[PhilM]

I take that but I'd argue that it's clear that he went out of his way looking for trouble so it's not a case of self defense.

Which is what the prosecution will be arguing as it’s the massive flaw in any argument he has alongside with the weapon. It’ll be interesting what they do.

 

[Ruairi77]

When the state can't protect people and businesses, citizens will. I remember it happened here when the London riots spread out across the country. Groups of men formed to protect shops and businesses. The difference was they didn't have guns. Nobody here thought there was a sinister motive in doing this.

By the way, " He then gets in to a skirmish with unarmed protesters, kills two, injures two more"....

Watch the video. He is being chased down the street by a mob. That is not a skirmish.

Anything can be a weapon if it's intended to do harm. A skateboard is a weapon if it's being used to hit somebody over the head. So, saying that an 'unarmed protester was shot' is categorically untrue.

And, immediately after, he tried to hand himself into police. As they were all in AFV's, they probably couldn't hear him. Again, watch the footage.

I did, he's leaving the scene of the shooting that the cops are responding to. Maybe they couldnt see his AR 15.

 

[Mr. White]

Ah look guys. Wanna be right wing internet hard man casually dismissing a loss of human life. Shock

What would you do if somebody was trying to kill you or a member of your family? Give him a hand job?

 

[Ruairi77]

Which is what the prosecution will be arguing as it’s the massive flaw in any argument he has alongside with the weapon. It’ll be interesting what they do.

he'll go down for first degree murder. Anything less opens a pandoras box of legal challenges.

 

[Ruairi77]

What would you do if somebody was trying to kill you or a member of your family? Give him a hand job?

I'd defend myself and my family. and stop projecting.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

What would you do if somebody was trying to kill you or a member of your family? Give him a hand job?

Hmm tough question. I can tell you what I wouldn’t do, I wouldn’t go onto an Internet forum and anonymously gloat about it like a faux hard man.

 

[Blues Harp]

When the state can't protect people and businesses, citizens will. I remember it happened here when the London riots spread out across the country. Groups of men formed to protect shops and businesses. The difference was they didn't have guns. Nobody here thought there was a sinister motive in doing this.

By the way, " He then gets in to a skirmish with unarmed protesters, kills two, injures two more"....

Watch the video. He is being chased down the street by a mob. That is not a skirmish.

Anything can be a weapon if it's intended to do harm. A skateboard is a weapon if it's being used to hit somebody over the head. So, saying that an 'unarmed protester was shot' is categorically untrue.

And, immediately after, he tried to hand himself into police. As they were all in AFV's, they probably couldn't hear him. Again, watch the footage.

What "London" riots.....not up here in Liverpool...never reached us ...remember Orgreave when the State attacked unarmed citizens, ya blert

 

[Huyton Layne]

He travelled 30 minutes. The conurbation straddles a state line.

nah. Kenosha is very separate from Illinois. It has people live there that work in Chicago but it is a very, very separate urban area. South Kenosha becomes grassland and farmland in to northern Illinois. You don't travel between states without getting on the freeway. Also Kenosha may be classed as overspill from Chicago but the dude's from Antioch by the looks of it and that's way the frig out in the boonies.

 

[Prevenger17]

Hope they string the little twerp up

 

[ForeverBlue92]

For those who are full on anti firearms - get down a range and have a few rounds and believe me the rush of power you feel will change your mother fudgin minds forever.

Its like a virgin telling you sex is immoral - one dip in that sweet sweet vagina and your mind will be blown.

Still US gun laws are shockingly lax.

 

[Blues Harp]

Hope they string the little twerp up

Wouldn't wish that on anyone...but that's another debate...if found guilty, a life in prison would be appropriate...removal of your freedom is worse than death imo..understand your pov though.