Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

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A few things.

Squad cars don't prevent a round from penetrating through into a cabin. There is still plenty of windows and being stuck in your car is the worst place when someone has a gun pointed at you. Training across the world, whether for police, military and in some cases civilians is to keep moving. Especially if an active shooter scenario exists. You do not want to be a sitting duck.

As for shooting to kill. You are trained to stop the threat. Now that means targeting the greatest centre of mass, being the torso. The result often if they achieve this means death may and likely does occur, however try shooting an arm or a leg and miss. Bystanders are at risk, especially on a new York street at 4pm. Such a difficult shot to achieve.

As for Australian police. Training is to meet the threat with equal or greater force. Once the person gets rid of said weapon, you then reassess and if necessary disengage and urilise another option. Be it a baton, taser, pepper/ oc spray.

As I stated earlier, without knowing all the details it's unfair to speculate. However based on what I'm aware of at the moment I have no issues with this incident.

At the end of the day however when you turn up to this incident as a police officer and information provided is that a man is acting crazy with a guy threatening people and when you arrive he points it towards you in a shooting stance there isn't much time to decide is it real ? Will he fire ? Is this possibly an active shooter ? Suicide by cop, and if it is then you don't want to be waiting for him to shoot first.

Firstly all of the facts are out. The only thing that isn't is the verdict by the cops own internal investigation. From all of the eye witness and the statement from the chief in the press conference they know what happened and have even released cctv footage.

The Police in the US use their cars as a shield when in armed situations. That's a fact look it up. Its not just some Hollywood thing. It's their first line of defense. So regardless whether bullets penetrate it or not that's not the point. They had potential cover in the interim to assess the target.

Judging the fact that no shot was fired at their car as they drove up even though the guy was in a "stance" gives you an indication that it may be ok to use it.

Come off it they are trained to kill or neutralize. The wording on their training goes "two to centre mass" and if need be "one to the head". you say it yourself that will kill most people.

No one is asking them to pretend its a movie and shoot legs or arms but shooting someone dead right away is clearly not a good approach.

I have no idea what you are trying to say about the Australian police. They are clearly trained no to shoot first. They always pull their batons first, pepper spray or taser next then gun based on the situation so you are off. Look it up there are plenty of documentaries about how they teach cops.

Your last paragraph just contradicts your overall stance because clearly they did none of what you are mentioning as you yourself said they got out and fired because he was crazy and with a gun. That was based on eye witness reports i am guessing and not their own knowledge or assessment.

Ironically your last paragraph is what most of us want to happen. For them to properly assess the target and assess what they could do before firing their weapon.

What other options based on fact, experience and other events of similar nature.

None of that occurred here. four of them rocked up and opened fire with no words or no thought of talking or disabling him by any other means.
 
Firstly all of the facts are out. The only thing that isn't is the verdict by the cops own internal investigation. From all of the eye witness and the statement from the chief in the press conference they know what happened and have even released cctv footage.

The Police in the US use their cars as a shield when in armed situations. That's a fact look it up. Its not just some Hollywood thing. It's their first line of defense. So regardless whether bullets penetrate it or not that's not the point. They had potential cover in the interim to assess the target.

Judging the fact that no shot was fired at their car as they drove up even though the guy was in a "stance" gives you an indication that it may be ok to use it.

Come off it they are trained to kill or neutralize. The wording on their training goes "two to centre mass" and if need be "one to the head". you say it yourself that will kill most people.

No one is asking them to pretend its a movie and shoot legs or arms but shooting someone dead right away is clearly not a good approach.

I have no idea what you are trying to say about the Australian police. They are clearly trained no to shoot first. They always pull their batons first, pepper spray or taser next then gun based on the situation so you are off. Look it up there are plenty of documentaries about how they teach cops.

Your last paragraph just contradicts your overall stance because clearly they did none of what you are mentioning as you yourself said they got out and fired because he was crazy and with a gun. That was based on eye witness reports i am guessing and not their own knowledge or assessment.

Ironically your last paragraph is what most of us want to happen. For them to properly assess the target and assess what they could do before firing their weapon.

What other options based on fact, experience and other events of similar nature.

None of that occurred here. four of them rocked up and opened fire with no words or no thought of talking or disabling him by any other means.

Of course you use whatever cover is available .The only thing that you’d fancy to stop a round is the engine block , you could try the wheels as well but I’d say both of there are not something you’d want to be testing out with your life on the line .
 
Of course you use whatever cover is available .The only thing that you’d fancy to stop a round is the engine block , you could try the wheels as well but I’d say both of there are not something you’d want to be testing out with your life on the line .

That's not what the Aussie bot said though. He reckons they are trained to run around and keep moving like a 12 year old playing call of duty.

Obviously they are not going to stand there all day waiting to be shot through the window or door or whatever part of the car is covering them.

But it gives them a chance to take cover and call out to the suspect that's why they do it. They have cover to point their guns at the suspect. Better than standing in the street if they do suspect him of having a gun.

Its a deterrent not a bullet proof wall that's not what i am claiming by the way.

Hence their superiors always tell them to use their car as cover.
 
That's not what the Aussie bot said though. He reckons they are trained to run around and keep moving like a 12 year old playing call of duty.

Obviously they are not going to stand there all day waiting to be shot through the window or door or whatever part of the car is covering them.

But it gives them a chance to take cover and call out to the suspect that's why they do it. They have cover to point their guns at the suspect. Better than standing in the street if they do suspect him of having a gun.

Its a deterrent not a bullet proof wall that's not what i am claiming by the way.

Hence their superiors always tell them to use their car as cover.

Again I’m not arguing mate .
 
That's not what the Aussie bot said though. He reckons they are trained to run around and keep moving like a 12 year old playing call of duty.

Obviously they are not going to stand there all day waiting to be shot through the window or door or whatever part of the car is covering them.

But it gives them a chance to take cover and call out to the suspect that's why they do it. They have cover to point their guns at the suspect. Better than standing in the street if they do suspect him of having a gun.

Its a deterrent not a bullet proof wall that's not what i am claiming by the way.

Hence their superiors always tell them to use their car as cover.

Now I'm an Aussie bot. For what, offering a different perspective, opinion or discussion on the issue.

How else are people to debate matters if everyone has the same position ?

I think you've misinterpreted what I've written and it probably is due to your personal dislike for me. As such there's not much I can do.

Aussie bot though. You're giving Australians too much credit.
 
Now I'm an Aussie bot. For what, offering a different perspective, opinion or discussion on the issue.

How else are people to debate matters if everyone has the same position ?

I think you've misinterpreted what I've written and it probably is due to your personal dislike for me. As such there's not much I can do.

Aussie bot though. You're giving Australians too much credit.

Jesus mate calm down it was a joke.

and you call us lefties snowflakes.
 


I don't mind the comment he made... but do you follow this guy on twitter? I'm trying to figure out who he is. It's just what I do when I see someones twitter quoted in a meaningful way.

He seems a bit douchey. Again, don't disagree with the tweet you posted at all though. The rest of them though...
 
I don't mind the comment he made... but do you follow this guy on twitter? I'm trying to figure out who he is. It's just what I do when I see someones twitter quoted in a meaningful way.

He seems a bit douchey. Again, don't disagree with the tweet you posted at all though. The rest of them though...
Not sure you should worry about who "dick kickley" is as to just enjoying the sentiment of his response re SC's success at seceding last time. He appears to not be serious, most likely not even a real identity, rather just an assumed character....

Regardless, it's been almost 160 years since they tried it the last time. It has about as much chance of succeeding at seceding as do the folks who want to create the state of "Jefferson" out of chunks of CA & OR.
 
I don't mind the comment he made... but do you follow this guy on twitter? I'm trying to figure out who he is. It's just what I do when I see someones twitter quoted in a meaningful way.

He seems a bit douchey. Again, don't disagree with the tweet you posted at all though. The rest of them though...
Never heard/read him before however your assessment doesn’t surprise me given his twitter handle.

Just thought his comment summed up my first feeling on seeing the bill but then I have little time for the kabuki theater of threatening to secede at the best of times.
 

Will probably take an explcit Supreme Court ruling one way or the other to be sure but seems most of the lower courts are upholding state restrictions on AR-15s.


This is what happened with handguns though; lower courts make decisions and then the Supreme Court makes a rather more correct decision (in terms of what the 2A says, not morally) that reverses the lower courts decisions, and the anti-gun movement ends up back at square one.

To go down this road yet again is a betrayal of the people that the current system is killing and will continue to kill.
 
This is what happened with handguns though; lower courts make decisions and then the Supreme Court makes a rather more correct decision (in terms of what the 2A says, not morally) that reverses the lower courts decisions, and the anti-gun movement ends up back at square one.

To go down this road yet again is a betrayal of the people that the current system is killing and will continue to kill.
Aye, the Supreme court overturning all lower court decisions is a risk, especially if Trump gets to pick more justices. However the court has been surprisingly reluctant to take more cases since Heller in 2008 despite multiple opportunities to do so.

Not sure what other roads those in favour of gun restrictions can go down though - trying to get national laws in place much harder and even if implemented might have legal challenges. Executive orders aren’t any better, I’m certainly expecting Trump’s bump stock ban to face some hurdles as Obama’s team looked at trying it and didn’t think it would pass legal review.
 
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