Responding to this post in this thread as think it probably more on topic here.
Whilst it is understandable that people who knew Sterling describe him charitably, personally see no value in making Sterling out as saintly for those that didn’t as think deliberately skewing facts calls into question the rest of any reasoning you use in a debate. Also implicit in it is some sort of acceptance that it is OK if law enforcement or criminial justice system errs against those whose life has been less than perfect. Agree Sterling’s prior history does certainly play some part in hindsight analysis of determining whether he was likely to use his gun, I’m just don’t think it outweighs the descriptions that he was under two police officers who had other means to subdue him and that one officer had reportedly already had a gun to his head and said “I’m going to kill you”.
Unfortunately we both agree that there are more straightforward cases like Shaver or Scott but still think that deaths such as Sterlings are worth investigating as these circumstances (someone who had a criminal history and also carrying a gun) probably account for the bulk of police shootings and are more likely to highlight ways to both a) stop a felon from getting a gun in the first place b) identify problems in police training/equipment/response that resulted in death rather than a conviction for resisting arrest.
Addressing your second point I don’t believe that there is a contagion of police corruption and abuse (although I do believe there are training and culture issues which we can get into separately). However even if I did I don’t see how possessing a gun would help as you can’t outshoot a corrupt police department, you can only reform it. Possession of a gun would probably help with third party threats but I still think a better solution is to have a trained and trustworthy police force that can respond effectively when called, not least because that also protects those not capable of handing their own firearms like the young, ill or disabled.
Don't view it so much as outgunning the police. I don't think it makes sense to simultaneously argue that American police are inherently corrupt and bigoted and murderous (you and I don't argue this, but certainly some do) while also telling me to rely on these allegedly biased and incompetent people for protection. On some more philosophical level I do value the individual right of gun ownership in the balance of power between state and individual. We don't need to get deep into whether or not individuals could formidably oppose the state and I don't think it's a realistic scenario for the foreseeable future. That said, I do believe there is something of a "good tension" between arms of the state (law enforcement) and the citizenry, I just think it would play out on much lower levels (low level police corruption vs. shootouts between police and citizens).
But on a far more practical level, the issue for me is that criminals don't abide by laws. They already own guns illegally, and further gun restrictions don't impact them. So, in a gun free utopia, it wouldn't be just the police having weapons, it would be the police and criminals. Thus rendering law abiding citizens reliant on police protection entirely. That's disturbing (in America, at least) on a number of levels. First, it again gives the police leverage they don't have now. They know we're ever more reliant on them for protection. This is where the rub comes in as far as advocates who hate military/police but use this argument on gun control. Second, it gives the criminals further space to operate, at least until a gun control framework makes a serious dent in the amount of weapons in the hands of criminals. Third, it does reduce my right to protect my own family from criminals, as unlikely as an incident like that may be.
Anyway, this is all ground we've covered so we probably don't need to dive back into gun control, I'm only expanding on my thoughts here for the purpose of tying it back to what I think is an incongruous position by those on the far left when it comes to guns and policing.
