Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 28206
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
My views are deemed fairly conservative in UK terms but such is the craziness of US politics that I'd probably be seen as a far left socialist there.

I don't understand this american gun stuff. And I'm politically to the right. Guns aren't toys, they are dangerous and kill people. If you need an automatic gun as a "toy" to give your life fulfilment then you are a sad individual. And if you're content to see children lose their lives to protect an archaic perceived "right", then that's even more sad.
 
ToffeeTim said:
My views are deemed fairly conservative in UK terms but such is the craziness of US politics that I'd probably be seen as a far left socialist there.

I don't understand this american gun stuff. And I'm politically to the right. Guns aren't toys, they are dangerous and kill people. If you need an automatic gun as a "toy" to give your life fulfilment then you are a sad individual. And if you're content to see children lose their lives to protect an archaic perceived "right", then that's even more sad.
Click to expand...

I don't blame anyone for not seeing the fun in guns, or thinking that whatever fun/liberty justifications exist don't warrant the body count. Of course, shooting automatic weapons is really, really fun, so I don't think fulfillment necessarily factors into that.

But, the firearm(s) yesterday weren't automatic, if that is the implication. And it's not a "perceived right" it's a right. It's a constitutionally protected, SCOTUS-affirmed right. Whether it should be is something we can all fight about.
 
Pettifogger said:
I'm basing my opinion on restrictions we've seen before. 10 rounds, 15 rounds, etc. Banning 30 round AR mags probably won't make a big difference, IMO. Any semi-competent user can quickly change magazines, so we're really talking about some small interruptions in shooting that I doubt will be impactful in most of these incidents. And of course, they can be similarly defeated by multiple weapons (including multiple handguns).

If I was playing devil's advocate for magazine restrictions, my argument might be that for the random disgruntled person who isn't a "gun guy," that fumbling with magazines could make a real difference. I don't think that's particularly realistic, but that's the best argument I've got.

Of course, if we limited magazines to 3-4 shots or something of that sort, that may be different. You would come close to banning semi-auto firearms outright. I don't think that would get traction, and that's not what people tend to talk about in terms of mag restrictions. But I figured I'd include it as a caveat.
Click to expand...
Were those restrictions in the 1994 bill? I wonder if there is any data on whether mass shootings have become more lethal (irrespective of their frequency) in years since that sunset, anecdotally it seems that way.

My understanding is that those small interruptions in shooting allow people to flee or tackle the shooter - as you say a lot of these killers seem to be keen gun guys so the interruptions aren't long but I'd certainly prefer my chances vs someone with a 10 round magazine vs a 30. I also think that carrying multiple magazines and/or weapons would provide far more of a logistical barrier in both obtaining them (overall cost/triggering red flags during purchase) and transporting them (you can only fit so many in a backpack).

I'd be perfectly happy effectively banning semi-autos but agree with you it is an unrealistic goal without significant change in society - perhaps brought about by less of the younger generation hunting and instead having to endure "active shooter" drills.

I presume you would support banning bump stocks and the continued ban on fully automatic?
 
Things that won't change any time soon.. Lazy fat ass in the sh-White House won't stop defending those who enrich him (and put him in the job he's utterly unqualified to do), ditto the Florida AG who, like all the others, does nothing to enrich the lives of the people they treat as 3rd class citizens - otherwise there would be major improvements in state care, voting rights and a proper campaign to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

And just in case the Christian Right defend the 2nd Amendment start asking them how many guns God uses.
 
ToffeeTim said:
My views are deemed fairly conservative in UK terms but such is the craziness of US politics that I'd probably be seen as a far left socialist there.

I don't understand this american gun stuff. And I'm politically to the right. Guns aren't toys, they are dangerous and kill people. If you need an automatic gun as a "toy" to give your life fulfilment then you are a sad individual. And if you're content to see children lose their lives to protect an archaic perceived "right", then that's even more sad.
Click to expand...
The consensus on gun control here compared to America is incredible
 
ToffeeTim said:
My views are deemed fairly conservative in UK terms but such is the craziness of US politics that I'd probably be seen as a far left socialist there.

I don't understand this american gun stuff. And I'm politically to the right. Guns aren't toys, they are dangerous and kill people. If you need an automatic gun as a "toy" to give your life fulfilment then you are a sad individual. And if you're content to see children lose their lives to protect an archaic perceived "right", then that's even more sad.
Click to expand...
I'm a conservative in the US (though admittedly to the center of the spectrum rather than the right) and I agree with you my friend.
 
Pettifogger said:
Yes, but that's part of why people think the problem extends beyond guns. We have mental health issues. We have bullying issues. We have a complete lack of personal responsibility among a vast portion of our citizenry as an issue. We have absent parent issues. We have too many people thinking everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but we also have too many people saying "nothing is your fault, it's all someone else's fault."
Click to expand...
Every country has those issues, the difference between gun violence here and everywhere else is simple, no matter how much you dress it up.
 
LinekersLegs said:
Were those restrictions in the 1994 bill? I wonder if there is any data on whether mass shootings have become more lethal (irrespective of their frequency) in years since that sunset, anecdotally it seems that way.

My understanding is that those small interruptions in shooting allow people to flee or tackle the shooter - as you say a lot of these killers seem to be keen gun guys so the interruptions aren't long but I'd certainly prefer my chances vs someone with a 10 round magazine vs a 30. I also think that carrying multiple magazines and/or weapons would provide far more of a logistical barrier in both obtaining them (overall cost/triggering red flags during purchase) and transporting them (you can only fit so many in a backpack).

I'd be perfectly happy effectively banning semi-autos but agree with you it is an unrealistic goal without significant change in society - perhaps brought about by less of the younger generation hunting and instead having to endure "active shooter" drills.

I presume you would support banning bump stocks and the continued ban on fully automatic?
Click to expand...

Bump stocks are tough. In theory I have no issue with banning them, because people who want to go through the process can gain access to auto weapons already. The problem is that bump stocks are really something that can easily 3D printed and have no real mechanical function. If I were on your side of the argument generally, I'd remark that it's strange we're going to ban the little piece of innocuous plastic and not the functioning firearm. In other words, it's just a piece of plastic, and while I wouldn't at all mind seeing bump stocks become extinct, it's kind of weird to ban little pieces of plastic with no independent function.
 
ToffeeTim said:
My views are deemed fairly conservative in UK terms but such is the craziness of US politics that I'd probably be seen as a far left socialist there.

I don't understand this american gun stuff. And I'm politically to the right. Guns aren't toys, they are dangerous and kill people. If you need an automatic gun as a "toy" to give your life fulfilment then you are a sad individual. And if you're content to see children lose their lives to protect an archaic perceived "right", then that's even more sad.
Click to expand...

Great post
 
Seems one of the victims was possibly an Everton fan ?

_100048782_joaquinolverpicfb.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

→ Log in 🔑 Register
🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top