Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[Pettifogger]

Out of curiousity, you've brought up this bolded statement above twice now...why would someone need to be intimate with firearms to have an opinion on gun control laws? All guns, no matter how familiar you are with them, can send out a high-velocity projectile that is lethal or injurious. Are you suggesting one needs to know how to field strip a 1911 in the dark in order to voice an opinion on this issue?

Not at all, and I get annoyed at those who indicate that threshold exists.

That aside, we're talking about a subject where the media frequently confuses automatic with semi-automatic, a machine gun with a legal rifle, etc. Those are huge mistakes which make it incredibly difficult to talk about actual proposals.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

While I probably disagree with everything you advocate, yes, the answer is a complete ban on gun ownership.

But, that's an answer America won't accept. America is willing to accept collateral deaths in return for liberty. Call that what you will, but it's the truth.

.

Tough. What "liberty" are you referring to? The right to bear arms is a cry from a medieval age! So a fat, middle-aged man from Idaho can't go out at the weekend, get drunk, and take pot shots at wild animals. So what? The world won't end. I'e already said a neat business could be set up with controlled areas to allow hunting.

 

[Pettifogger]

Tough. What "liberty" are you referring to? The right to bear arms is a cry from a medieval age! So a fat, middle-aged man from Idaho can't go out at the weekend, get drunk, and take pot shots at wild animals. So what? The world won't end. I'e already said a neat business could be set up with controlled areas to allow hunting.

I'm just telling you what the reality is. If you want to sell America on your vision of a gun-free, highly-restricted-hunting-America, I'm not going to stop you. I just don't think you'll succeed.

 

[verreauxi]

Not at all, and I get annoyed at those who indicate that threshold exists.

That aside, we're talking about a subject where the media frequently confuses automatic with semi-automatic, a machine gun with a legal rifle, etc. Those are huge mistakes which make it incredibly difficult to talk about actual proposals.

Ok. Thanks.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I'm just telling you what the reality is. If you want to sell America on your vision of a gun-free, highly-restricted-hunting-America, I'm not going to stop you. I just don't think you'll succeed.

okay I appreciate the honesty - but is that position a perpetual reality? At what point do these school killings register? Or was that moment passed 25 years ago?

I'm genuinely interested how a modern democratic society can defend the idea of private ownership of such serious weapons. The smokescreen of "hunting" is surely untenable after a certain length of time?

I know in the UK and Ireland a serious political movement could completely remove weapons from private ownership at a stroke.

 

[toffy]

No, no you are implying i am a racist. So please explain. Or apologise and take it back. Simple as that

You liked a post where somebody used the word Honkies.

You could have set an example and took a stance that such use of a term is unnecessary, instead chose to like the post.

I wouldn't say your racist in any way based on that but are you sympathising with such a statement ?

 

[Pettifogger]

okay I appreciate the honesty - but is that position a perpetual reality? At what point do these school killings register? Or was that moment passed 25 years ago?

I'm genuinely interested how a modern democratic society can defend the idea of private ownership of such serious weapons. The smokescreen of "hunting" is surely untenable after a certain length of time?

I know in the UK and Ireland a serious political movement could completely remove weapons from private ownership at a stroke.

Not to be trite, but guns are as American as baseball. For many of us, they're tools that were constantly present throughout our childhoods. We knew they were to be handled carefully, but we weren't frightened of them. We didn't think they had a life of their own.

That's less the case now, and I'm not all that old. So, if you're looking for "hope" that it won't always be this way, more and more kids are probably growing up timid around guns, even despite high ownership rates. Fewer people hunt, or use them around a farm/ranch/etc. So in that way, even though we have huge ownership numbers, I'm not sure people are as "comfortable" around guns as in prior decades.

So perhaps that'll change their position in American society. Unfortunately, a lot of what is driving the gun market right now is a political battle with the American left. Neither side trusts each other, and buying a gun is basically a way to make a conservative statement, so to speak.

 

[SteveSC]

You liked a post where somebody used the word Honkies.

You could have set an example and took a stance that such use of a term is unnecessary, instead chose to like the post.

I wouldn't say your racist in any way based on that but are you sympathising with such a statement ?

@JimmyJeffers was clearly joking.

So you are calling me racist also are you?

Who are you anyway? His personal defender? You only chime in to come to Liams defense. Are you his multi or just some sad sack who wants to be his friend.

How is posting about Everton going for you by the way?

Pipe down would you. I know you have a vendetta for me so give it a rest.

Liam knows what he said and couldn't take a joke. I am guessing Jimmy is white too.

Go look up racism would you.

Oh and you are defending a guy who was banned from two threads for disparging remarks about immigrants who were not white.

 

[MrPerfectNot]

Is the position a "perpetual reality"? Probably not. But a total ban on private ownership is, in my view, a non-starter.

Even as a relatively liberal person, I grew up hunting and own two rifles and two shotguns. I don't look to them for personal protection, but I do still hunt on occasion. But there are things we can and should do: better mental health coverage, background checks, restrictions on certain semi-automatic weapons, etc.

I do not believe we will eliminate gun violence in my lifetime (and I'm middle-aged), but we can do much to lessen it. And should do those things.

 

[toffy]

@JimmyJeffers was clearly joking.

So you are calling me racist also are you?

Who are you anyway? His personal defender? You only chime in to come to Liams defense. Are you his multi or just some sad sack who wants to be his friend.

How is posting about Everton going for you by the way?

Pipe down would you. I know you have a vendetta for me so give it a rest.

Liam knows what he said and couldn't take a joke. I am guessing Jimmy is white too.

Go look up racism would you.

Oh and you are defending a guy who was banned from two threads for disparging remarks about immigrants who were not white.

Just like my Irish side of the family. So easy to rile up

 

[tsubaki]

I do not believe we will eliminate gun violence in my lifetime (and I'm middle-aged), but we can do much to lessen it. And should do those things.

Indeed. You could reduce the level of school shootings a long way just by making sure the American school system didn't create so many anti-social, hate-filled "rejects" who believe (in many cases correctly) that their life chances ended the moment they found out they weren't that good at sports.

 

[SteveSC]

Just like my Irish side of the family. So easy to rile up

So you are taking a pop at my nationality now are you. Good for you.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Not to be trite, but guns are as American as baseball. For many of us, they're tools that were constantly present throughout our childhoods.

Again I appreciate the considered reply but surely people accept that things must change? You will know better but isn't this level of mass shootings a relatively recent thing over the last few decades?

 

[Pettifogger]

Again I appreciate the considered reply but surely people accept that things must change? You will know better but isn't this level of mass shootings a relatively recent thing over the last few decades?

Yes, but that's part of why people think the problem extends beyond guns. We have mental health issues. We have bullying issues. We have a complete lack of personal responsibility among a vast portion of our citizenry as an issue. We have absent parent issues. We have too many people thinking everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but we also have too many people saying "nothing is your fault, it's all someone else's fault."

 

[MrPerfectNot]

Indeed. You could reduce the level of school shootings a long way just by making sure the American school system didn't create so many anti-social, hate-filled "rejects" who believe (in many cases correctly) that their life chances ended the moment they found out they weren't that good at sports.

Well, we'd have to translate that to more specific, objective types of goals and standards, but our schools can do much more. Of course, we'd have to fund them effectively to do so, but we have to start with the goal.

And that's just the schools. There are other dimensions of society - parenting, community, media, etc., that will all need to be addressed.