Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[Gouldy]

At last, something we can agree on lol

This video was just released.

I guess a little warning that some viewers may find this distressing:

 

[Gouldy]

 

[LinekersLegs]

I appreciate that cops have a difficult job but not sure how you can look at that video and read the testimony without thinking that he overreacted and shot an innocent man dead.

 

[Kurt.]

Give enough monkeys enough guns.... see the results.

 

[Yank]

Never heard the comparison of subjecting someone to second hand smoke to be willing to shoot and murder people before.. Absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not pro- or anti-gun, I will say though, simply banning and confiscating guns in America, even if people were willing, is simply unenforceable. Even if it were, mass shootings would just be converted to mass killings via other means. It's the world we have always lived in, in my humble opinion.

 

[Number_25]

I still can't fathom why guns are still readily available in a supposed civilised western nation.

Can anyone give me a coherent argument as to why the second amendment should still stand?

 

[Tubey]

Never heard the comparison of subjecting someone to second hand smoke to be willing to shoot and murder people before.. Absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not pro- or anti-gun, I will say though, simply banning and confiscating guns in America, even if people were willing, is simply unenforceable. Even if it were, mass shootings would just be converted to mass killings via other means. It's the world we have always lived in, in my humble opinion.

I think most reasonable people are saying don't allow convicted criminals the right to them, or those with mental health issues, perhaps have an age gate of 25 etc. Banning outright at this point is unfeasible due to just how many are freely available; it'd just result in an easily accessible black market, much like alcohol during prohibition. But if you restrict access to them from those who clearly shouldn't have them, then you make it harder for them to get them, which is at least a step in the right direction.

Yes, murders would still happen with or without guns, but guns make it easier to kill more people and quickly. Look at the terror attacks in London recently - people with knives had 8 minutes to cause damage, but in the US they would have had easy access to powerful firearms.

 

[Tubey]

I still can't fathom why guns are still readily available in a supposed civilised western nation.

Can anyone give me a coherent argument as to why the second amendment should still stand?

At it's core, there's absolutely no reason for the populace to own them. However - and I don't mean this as an insult but it is what it is - you have to account for the inbuilt American paranoia as a nation. They are naturally exclusive - many don't have passports and have never travelled abroad. For much of their history they were isolationists. They had to fight for their independence and in their mind they need to be prepared at all times to defend their freedoms, even from their own government.

That's why it's so hard to get reforms through - the whole nation is insecure about their place in the world. It's why, despite the many similarities between say the UK and the USA, they are fundamentally different in mindset.

 

[Tubey]

I appreciate that cops have a difficult job but not sure how you can look at that video and read the testimony without thinking that he overreacted and shot an innocent man dead.

Whereas I think that video and testimony reinforces why he did it and was right to do so. No intent whatsoever prior to the incident, and his reaction afterwards does nothing whatsoever to support the "this officer is a murderer" idea.

And it also reinforces that the instruction not to pull "it" out was as clear as day. The driver simply had to pull his hands away and none of that happens - he left the officer no choice.

You view it a different way obviously but my view is the officer has a right to protect his own life and has to act to do so if an armed person ignores instruction.

 

[Number_25]

At it's core, there's absolutely no reason for the populace to own them. However - and I don't mean this as an insult but it is what it is - you have to account for the inbuilt American paranoia as a nation. They are naturally exclusive - many don't have passports and have never travelled abroad. For much of their history they were isolationists. They had to fight for their independence and in their mind they need to be prepared at all times to defend their freedoms, even from their own government.

That's why it's so hard to get reforms through - the whole nation is insecure about their place in the world. It's why, despite the many similarities between say the UK and the USA, they are fundamentally different in mindset.

Thank you for sharing that.

I was afforded the opportunity to live with a couple of US exchange students in my second year, and they found it equally as strange that we didn't have access to weaponry - it might just be a cultural thing as you are alluding to.

 

[DanEFC92]

Whereas I think that video and testimony reinforces why he did it and was right to do so. No intent whatsoever prior to the incident, and his reaction afterwards does nothing whatsoever to support the "this officer is a murderer" idea.

And it also reinforces that the instruction not to pull "it" out was as clear as day. The driver simply had to pull his hands away and none of that happens - he left the officer no choice.

You view it a different way obviously but my view is the officer has a right to protect his own life and has to act to do so if an armed person ignores instruction.

He wasn't charged with premeditated murder.

 

[neil999]

At it's core, there's absolutely no reason for the populace to own them. However - and I don't mean this as an insult but it is what it is - you have to account for the inbuilt American paranoia as a nation. They are naturally exclusive - many don't have passports and have never travelled abroad. For much of their history they were isolationists. They had to fight for their independence and in their mind they need to be prepared at all times to defend their freedoms, even from their own government.

That's why it's so hard to get reforms through - the whole nation is insecure about their place in the world. It's why, despite the many similarities between say the UK and the USA, they are fundamentally different in mindset.

and the NRA feeds into this mindset to make money..

 

[Tubey]

He wasn't charged with premeditated murder.

I know, but see the text of the tweet with the footage. That's been the narrative from the public - he shot him because he wanted to.

 

[Number_25]

This video was just released.

I guess a little warning that some viewers may find this distressing:

That's murder.

 

[Steve0]

Whereas I think that video and testimony reinforces why he did it and was right to do so. No intent whatsoever prior to the incident, and his reaction afterwards does nothing whatsoever to support the "this officer is a murderer" idea.

And it also reinforces that the instruction not to pull "it" out was as clear as day. The driver simply had to pull his hands away and none of that happens - he left the officer no choice.

You view it a different way obviously but my view is the officer has a right to protect his own life and has to act to do so if an armed person ignores instruction.

He did follow instruction. The murderer said 'don't pull IT out'.

From what had gone on before it's plain that the IT would be taken to mean the gun. The victim did not pull out the gun. He followed the instruction.
If the murderer had said 'freeze' 'hands on the wheel' or 'don't pull ANYTHING out' then the not following instruction defence would carry water.

It'd still be nonsense like but would at least be intelligible. At the moment all we have is the defence that the murdered victim is dead because he didn't follow instruction when he followed instruction.