Current Affairs The 2020 United States Presidential Election

[dead_soft]

Let me just take this to the logical endpoint, just to spell out what I mean.

So Trump has taken it to -7.

Let's say Biden takes it to 0, or +7 over two terms. Massive sweeping left wing agenda.

Trump's base is empowered, the breeding grounds for radicalism are there, Trump 2.0 emerges.

This time, Trump 2.0 is elected on a ticket of revenge, and he swings the dial to -14. He can't get a dictatorship yet, the institutions just about holds up, and after four years. Biden 2.0 comes in.

He, in turn, swings the dial to +21.

Trump 3.0 then swings the dial to -28 and the people, with the mandate, authorise a dictatorship.

The US is then permanently -28. Because nobody ever learned, nobody ever reconciled, and in doing so made the fire ever worse. Both sides in a race to extinguish the other.

That can't be the answer, it just can't.

Is this another 'literal fact'?

 

[tsubaki]

No, I'm fairly sure they went into decline because literally a World War occurred because of those ideologies.

If you think war is the way out, by all means let's go down the current path, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Personally I'd prefer to not let things get to that point.

A war they started, after reasoning with them and patiently listening to their demands didn't work.

I am not saying execute them, I am saying that we should recognize what they are, what they are likely to (and more importantly, are not) respond to and most importantly in a US context recognize what they are already doing. Until we effectively challenge them, they'll keep poisoning society there and over here.

 

[dead_soft]

No, to use your analogy, I'm saying you move the dial a bit to the left, then a bit more, then a bit more again. Because you then gradually create a concensus that is increasingly left wing in your population.

You don't just smash the dial all at once to the left.

It's subtlety. Your "Guess what happens then?" is wrong - what happens if you take time is the project continues because you've done a decent job in power. 12 years of moderate governance edging left is better than 4 years of going mental, because you leave a lasting legacy.

Indeed, you've just now seen what happens when you "go mad" - Trump is a first term president. If Biden is smart, Trumpism is now dead after the attack on the Capitol. If he's not smart, then what we've just witnessed is the Beer Hall Putsch ahead of the main event in a few years.

Yet the moderate governance of Obama lead to the next President being Trump...

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

This has gone back years, but yes, Trump's scaremongering about losing the country if Biden gets in etc. wouldn't have been effective if people hadn't had months and months of protests and riots fresh in their minds.

That's just a fact. These actions didn't happen in a vacuum. They were reacting to circumstance.

Yeah fair point... after all, this was the first time he ran for election...... right?

 

[Tubey]

A war they started, after reasoning with them and patiently listening to their demands didn't work.

I am not saying execute them, I am saying that we should recognize what they are, what they are likely to (and more importantly, are not) respond to and most importantly in a US context recognize what they are already doing. Until we effectively challenge them, they'll keep poisoning society there and over here.

I simply have a different way of effectively challenging them.

To me, you're shooting down the birds, whilst I'd be smashing the eggs in the nest and poisoning their water supply.

My belief is you stop them poisoning society by making society more immune to that poison.

 

[Tubey]

Yeah fair point... after all, this was the first time he ran for election...... right?

Well, people weren't smashing the Capitol when Obama was elected, despite being a black guy, which is an anathema for the racists the other night.

There's two reasons why - Trump himself, and the circumstances over the last several years of escalating extremism.

 

[TN Toffee]

Yet the moderate governance of Obama lead to the next President being Trump...

I’d have to say that a significant part of the problem is the media ecosystem that led a huge segment of the American population to be legitimately convinced that that moderate governance you described was in fact Communism.

 

[Tubey]

Is this another 'literal fact'?

No.

 

[Prevenger17]

These people believe that the host of the Apprentice, who often tweets in all caps, is on a secret mission to destroy the deep state and an international cabal of paedophiles, and that the Democrats somehow moved 7 millions votes from him to them and steal the election. They believe this so strongly, they stormed the symbol of their country's democracy and attacked the police with lead pipes.

And we need to listen to them.

 

[dead_soft]

I simply have a different way of effectively challenging them.

To me, you're shooting down the birds, whilst I'd be smashing the eggs in the nest and poisoning their water supply.

My belief is you stop them poisoning society by making society more immune to that poison.

What you're actually advocating is trying to train birds of prey to be vegetarian by offering up just a few voles now and again

 

[dead_soft]

No.

Realise it sounded a bit ridiculous then?

 

[tsubaki]

I simply have a different way of effectively challenging them.

To me, you're shooting down the birds, whilst I'd be smashing the eggs in the nest and poisoning their water supply.

My belief is you stop them poisoning society by making society more immune to that poison.

ah, centrism

 

[Tubey]

Yet the moderate governance of Obama lead to the next President being Trump...

Oh no, it was a lot more than that.

Roots are deep; you can trace quite easily the elevation of Trump back to Reagan without reaching too hard.

There's been failures, both Republican and Democrat, that led to the concerns BLM have, for example. You wouldn't just "blame Trump" for cops shooting black people; too simplistic.

 

[dead_soft]

I’d have to say that a significant part of the problem is the media ecosystem that led a huge segment of the American population to be legitimately convinced that that moderate governance you described was in fact Communism.

I agree, it wasn't a dig at Obama, it was showing how the argument doesn't really stack up

 

[Tubey]

What you're actually advocating is trying to train birds of prey to be vegetarian by offering up just a few voles now and again

Nope. Make them extinct by giving them no viable grounds to breed on.

Whereas you seem to think Nazis exist as they woke up one day and decided to become one for a laugh from what I can tell.