The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Seanjd]

It's a big contest to see who can spend the most money. Unfortunately it's always someone else's money............

What do you mean?

 

[Clint Planet]

http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...n-living-in-victorian-conditions-say-teachers

I've seen a great deal of this at first hand.

 

[Donald Twain]

http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...n-living-in-victorian-conditions-say-teachers

I've seen a great deal of this at first hand.

Another 5 years of this shower and we really will see Victorian 'values' first hand. It's a war on the poor and you better believe it. know your place!

 

[peteblue]

What do you mean?

I thought it was fairly obvious........

 

[peteblue]

Another 5 years of this shower and we really will see Victorian 'values' first hand. It's a war on the poor and you better believe it. know your place!

Do you honestly believe that there is a deliberate 'war on the poor'. Are you so brainwashed or insular to accept this sort of rubbish from Politicians who just want your vote. Yet I imagine you are quite happy for ordinary footballers to be paid more in a week than the rest of the population earn in a year. Our values these days are completely tipsy turvy, but for gods sake why would you really believe that crap.....

 

[1966efc]

There's no deliberate war, in my view. The poor simply experience the collateral damage of social / economic policy.

And the more extreme the policies, the greater the damage will be.

 

[Seanjd]

I thought it was fairly obvious........

Not really, can you explain it?

 

[Fresh Prince of Belle Val]

There's no deliberate war, in my view. The poor simply experience the collateral damage of social / economic policy.

And the more extreme the policies, the greater the damage will be.

This is true. The rich aren't targeting the poor on purpose, it makes bad press. They are merely looking after their own self interests. Which in turn is stagnating the poor and creating a bigger divide. The only way to get out of it, is to work hard and climb the social ladder. It's the working poor that I feel sorry for. You can have a family all working full time on low salaries and still be below the poverty line. The minimum wage needs increasing.

 

[bring the ghost on]

This is true. The rich aren't targeting the poor on purpose, it makes bad press. They are merely looking after their own self interests.

At what point does it stop being an act of self-interest and start being deliberate targeting of the poor?

The two are hugely interlinked obviously, but I don't think it's a huge stretch to say that the poor are deliberately targeted, largely by stealth. When the tories make cuts to benefits and social housing, raise VAT, open the NHS to the private market, etc, they are making a conscious decision to target the poor. The rich are simply not being targeted in a proportionate manner. I think 'war on the poor' is quite apt.

 

[Eggs]

Another 5 years of this shower and we really will see Victorian 'values' first hand. It's a war on the poor and you better believe it. know your place!

......introduce chimney sweeping to the national curriculum.

 

[peteblue]

At what point does it stop being an act of self-interest and start being deliberate targeting of the poor?

The two are hugely interlinked obviously, but I don't think it's a huge stretch to say that the poor are deliberately targeted, largely by stealth. When the tories make cuts to benefits and social housing, raise VAT, open the NHS to the private market, etc, they are making a conscious decision to target the poor. The rich are simply not being targeted in a proportionate manner. I think 'war on the poor' is quite apt.

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe the Tories want everyone to improve their lives but that to do so the country needs to grow and prosper..... Why does the UK generate 3X the GDP per capita of left wing countries like Russia,.....why is it that all left wing/socialist countries invariably go into major debt and ruin the lives of their populations.......why do you understand your own household finances but think that national finances are different.....its really simple really, you earn money, the more you earn the more you have to spend on health, education, social security, and so on. If everyone is on benefits, like Venezuela ( the country with the largest oil reserves on the planet), you go bankrupt. Which bit of simple economics do you not understand...........

 

[bluemangroup]

Pete's an elitist.

 

[bluemangroup]

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe the Tories want everyone to improve their lives but that to do so the country needs to grow and prosper..... Why does the UK generate 3X the GDP per capita of left wing countries like Russia,.....why is it that all left wing/socialist countries invariably go into major debt and ruin the lives of their populations.......why do you understand your own household finances but think that national finances are different.....its really simple really, you earn money, the more you earn the more you have to spend on health, education, social security, and so on. If everyone is on benefits, like Venezuela ( the country with the largest oil reserves on the planet), you go bankrupt. Which bit of simple economics do you not understand...........

Fine but are people just expected to fall down the cracks because they can't survive savage cuts? The idea should be to prune bits off of budget for people who can maybe afford to lose it. Not hacking away at it and exposing vulnerable people potentially poverty. And I think people wouldn't have a major complaint if it was proportional. If corporations weren't taking the absolute piss and paid to support those who aren't doing well when times are bad and operated with more of a social conscious then it would be a bit more palatable.

And citing extreme examples like Venezuela as a reason it's fine to do what they are doing helps nobody.

 

[peteblue]

Fine but are people just expected to fall down the cracks because they can't survive savage cuts? The idea should be to prune bits off of budget for people who can maybe afford to lose it. Not hacking away at it and exposing vulnerable people potentially poverty. And I think people wouldn't have a major complaint if it was proportional. If corporations weren't taking the absolute piss and paid to support those who aren't doing well when times are bad and operated with more of a social conscious then it would be a bit more palatable.

And citing extreme examples like Venezuela as a reason it's fine to do what they are doing helps nobody.

I agree with what you say. So shall we expect that footballers take a 50% pay cut or an additional tax hike. Venezuela is an extreme example, but just name one socialist country that has a higher GDP per capita higher than the UK....

For myself, I believe if we need to cut then we all need to cut, no exceptions. Except that health, education, defence, social security etc etc all need to be cut equally. But then all the vested interests start to complain. As an example, how many teachers have been made redundant or had their pay cut. How many nurses have been sacked or had their pay cut. Where have these savage cuts taken place. How many from the BBC have been made redundant. The truth is that the moral outrage brigade have largely been unaffected while the rest of us have had to deal with it.........

 

[bluemangroup]

I agree with what you say. So shall we expect that footballers take a 50% pay cut or an additional tax hike. Venezuela is an extreme example, but just name one socialist country that has a higher GDP per capita higher than the UK....

For myself, I believe if we need to cut then we all need to cut, no exceptions. Except that health, education, defence, social security etc etc all need to be cut equally. But then all the vested interests start to complain. As an example, how many teachers have been made redundant or had their pay cut. How many nurses have been sacked or had their pay cut. Where have these savage cuts taken place. How many from the BBC have been made redundant. The truth is that the moral outrage brigade have largely been unaffected while the rest of us have had to deal with it.........

Nurses are currently in the middle of a 1% pay rise which actually equates to 1% drop against inflation, having had pay freezes for a few years I believe. That's a very important job that isn't being rewarded properly.
I'm also not sure why the haves should continue to keep having irrespective of the financial landscape. Its not about a drastic lurch left ala Venezuela we are talking about, it's about people with an obscene amount of money helping people a lot less fortunate in this country from sliding into a black hole.