The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Bruce Wayne]

Simple yet effective.

Can't go wrong with some Batman graphics. Kapow.

 

[magicjuan]

Unfortunately mate, no society in what ever country is equal and never will be. There will always be people at the top and people at the bottom, no matter what happens. Legislation can be introduced to remedy this to some extent but not to be totally equal, no society can be equal!

Not a reason not to try. We are taught by the very Darwinistic elements of capitalism that some are better than others and therefore deserve rewarding more, it is the competition of capitalism, survival of the fittest. That is wrong, wholly wrong.

We see daily the blood shed in wars through greed. We also see daily great acts of kindness and generosity of spirit through compassion. We have the ability to do both, it's dualism, it is an ancient wisdom, the mystery of harmony and balance, a devil or an angel on each shoulder. We listen to the devil and it tells us we are more worthy than others, this generates greed, envy, lust and tips us into unkind acts. We listen to an angel (these are symbols by the way), we see ourselves as equal, we care, we nurse, treat, help and support.

The idea that we cannot have an equal society is patent nonsense, we are guided to choose not to want it because our egos are fed by consumerism and fear, if we wanted it enough we could end war, pain and suffering almost immediately, but we don't because 'there will always be people at the top..' is trotted out to justify inequality as if some are born with a right to benefit from the misery of the others. Bollix.

 

[magicjuan]

Bit of perspective needed though surely? Healthcare is still 'free' to all. Education is still 'free' to all. Policing and security is still free to all. Things like medicine and housing are often free to those who need it, as is transport in many instances.

If those on benefits are getting a bit less than they were before then sure, but lets not forget that British society still gives the worse off an incredible amount of support to get back on their feet. It's a level of support that would not only have been unheard of a generation ago in the UK, but is still unheard of in many countries around the world.

In the lottery of life, being born British aint a bad ticket to have been given.

That's not quite true is it? You cannot quantify those areas in purely economic terms, there is a price to pay from many other angles. A TV licence, bus pass are being phased out, healthcare may survive a couple of years until those that remember Bevan and the NHS being a sort of compensation to the public from WW2, education us being dictated to by corporate interests, without going into grants, student debts etc.

This illusion of 'free' is based on the lack of an invoice.

 

[Toffeelover]

Not a reason not to try. We are taught by the very Darwinistic elements of capitalism that some are better than others and therefore deserve rewarding more, it is the competition of capitalism, survival of the fittest. That is wrong, wholly wrong.

We see daily the blood shed in wars through greed. We also see daily great acts of kindness and generosity of spirit through compassion. We have the ability to do both, it's dualism, it is an ancient wisdom, the mystery of harmony and balance, a devil or an angel on each shoulder. We listen to the devil and it tells us we are more worthy than others, this generates greed, envy, lust and tips us into unkind acts. We listen to an angel (these are symbols by the way), we see ourselves as equal, we care, we nurse, treat, help and support.

The idea that we cannot have an equal society is patent nonsense, we are guided to choose not to want it because our egos are fed by consumerism and fear, if we wanted it enough we could end war, pain and suffering almost immediately, but we don't because 'there will always be people at the top..' is trotted out to justify inequality as if some are born with a right to benefit from the misery of the others. Bollix.

Even in some so called out right communist countries there is inequality, and they are supposedly equal. So it is not just in "capitalist countries. Absolute rubbish, you know that as well as me.

 

[roydo]

The idea that we cannot have an equal society is patent nonsense

We do have an equal society in many, many ways. One man/woman, one vote. Age/sex/race discrimination legislation. All are judged equally in the eyes of the law. Habeus Corpus. Democracy at national and local level.

Some folk get paid/earn more than others, but that should, and does imo, create an aspirational society, where hard work and talent is rewarded.

We have that, combined with a pretty decent welfare system. Now we can argue the toss about this cut, this allowance, or that tax rate. Or discuss whether money buys power and influence. (it obviously does).

Should we strive to make society better? Sure. But an equal society in terms of wealth is a ridiculous nirvana I believe.

 

[magicjuan]

Even in some so called out right communist countries there is inequality, and they are supposedly equal. So it is not just in "capitalist countries. Absolute rubbish, you know that as well as me.

Really? Tell me the name of a country that actually exists run in a true communist manner? China? Russia?

In my lifetime only one country came close to socialist principles, Nicaragua under the Sandinistas. So well did it work that America waged war on them surreptitiously.

So, the oligarchs in Moscow, communists? The state council in China, communists? Absolute rubbish, GQ, Vogue and Cosmo say they're communist so they must be...

 

[Toffeelover]

Really? Tell me the name of a country that actually exists run in a true communist manner? China? Russia?

In my lifetime only one country came close to socialist principles, Nicaragua under the Sandinistas. So well did it work that America waged war on them surreptitiously.

So, the oligarchs in Moscow, communists? The state council in China, communists? Absolute rubbish, GQ, Vogue and Cosmo say they're communist so they must be...

You seem to have misread what I posted, pointed out in those so called countries that are said to be communist, their citizens are not equal so not just capitalist countries. But those countries always claimed to be communist. Notice no mention of N. Korea. What had that to do with Nicaragua and the Contra war?

 

[roydo]

run in a true communist manner?

Maybe cos it doesnt work very well?

 

[Seanjd]

Does it not? It's hard to imagine any sanction is delivered with the intent of someone dying as a result of it. That sounds to me like an administrative cock-up that has had terrible consequences, just like in the hospitals on Teeside.

I mean the page here outlines the criteria for sanctions - http://liverpool.gov.uk/benefits-and-grants/advice-if-your-benefit-is-sanctioned/ - and nowhere does it say that you get sanctioned just for being poor or vulnerable.

It really is quite an accusation to say that the government are enacting some kind of euthanasia program here.

I never said that sanctioning is enforced to kill people. It is enforced primarily to slowly erode welfare and to 'cut costs'. Indirectly, this has killed 49 people which has sparked the ongoing inquest.

Don't be fooled, this is an ideological measure. It's the result of right wing politics and media pushing through an undeserving poor agenda for decades. It's the 'they don't deserve my money' argument, and it is cruel.

I know exactly why people are sanctioned. I also know that the DWP reward staff who enforce the most sanctions. Some offices have been known to hold sanctioning league tables.

How on earth is it justifiable to totally stop any payment for failure to turn up to an appointment? As I said before, these are some of our most vulnerable members of society, including large amounts of sick and disabled people. Many of the people who have died were found to have next to no money in their bank account after being sanctioned. Is this the way to treat the jobless?

Anybody who votes for a party who have seen food banks over populated because they knowingly take money away from the jobless ought to be ashamed of themselves. These people have no compassion.

 

[magicjuan]

Maybe cos it doesnt work very well?

And the pay off for capitalism is the misery of millions across the world? Fine if you're riding the 'freedom train to solvency', not so good if you're fretting where the next meal comes from. Perceptions.

No one knows whether communism would work because it would need the input, complicity and willing of finance to change for the good of everyone, and Mammon ain't gonna like that

 

[roydo]

And the pay off for capitalism is the misery of millions across the world? Fine if you're riding the 'freedom train to solvency', not so good if you're fretting where the next meal comes from. Perceptions.

No one knows whether communism would work because it would need the input, complicity and willing of finance to change for the good of everyone, and Mammon ain't gonna like that

I applaud your intentions mate, but the world aint going to change.

And believe me, I have experienced both. In a western/UK way that is. I am not some die hard capitalist that wants to wring every last drop from the down trodden masses, but I do live in a society that allows me to improve my lot in life. Which is largely down to me.

It aint perfect. But it is ok.

 

[sd_1992]

And the pay off for capitalism is the misery of millions across the world? Fine if you're riding the 'freedom train to solvency', not so good if you're fretting where the next meal comes from. Perceptions.

No one knows whether communism would work because it would need the input, complicity and willing of finance to change for the good of everyone, and Mammon ain't gonna like that

Why is communism the only system that is allowed to be talked about in ideal terms? History has shown the only thing communism has ever been in the real world is a method of controlling the masses by those who are exempt from it.

 

[magicjuan]

You seem to have misread what I posted, pointed out in those so called countries that are said to be communist, their citizens are not equal so not just capitalist countries. But those countries always claimed to be communist. Notice no mention of N. Korea. What had that to do with Nicaragua and the Contra war?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, this impression of communism is what is portrayed by the west as part of the legacy of the cold war. Problem is, we have subsequently discovered that the funding of both sides was by the same private banks, go search, you'll find the info.

It's propaganda, it's played out by both sides, just like labour and conservatives, catholics and protestants, coke and pepsi. You buy into a brand, a manufactured belief. Do you not think that your oppo in Vladivostok doesn't think you're a baddy? It's all a nonsense, but, in reference to Nicaragua the Sandinistas began a socialist programme for the people as a whole, health, education, work programmes and everything and everyone benefitted equally, so good the US were scared it would spread across south America and threaten their way of life, hence the funding of the Contras using slush funds from drug sales

 

[magicjuan]

I applaud your intentions mate, but the world aint going to change.

And believe me, I have experienced both. In a western/UK way that is. I am not some die hard capitalist that wants to wring every last drop from the down trodden masses, but I do live in a society that allows me to improve my lot in life. Which is largely down to me.

It aint perfect. But it is ok.

key word there

 

[roydo]

key word there

Fair enough. Communism, in its "ideal" form wouldnt.

"Enables" "Encourages" "Rewards" better?

Know which I prefer.