Current Affairs Syria...

[bluestevon]

Human Rights Watch reveals extent of Israel's phosphorus use in Gaza

"In Gaza, the Israeli military didn't just use white phosphorus in open areas as a screen for its troops," said Fred Abrahams, a senior Human Rights Watch researcher. "It fired white phosphorus repeatedly over densely populated areas, even when its troops weren't in the area and safe smoke shells were available. As a result, civilians needlessly suffered and died." He said senior commanders should be held to account.

Human Rights Watch called on the UN secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, to launch an international commission of inquiry to investigate allegations of violations of international law in the Gaza war by the Israeli military and Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist movement that controls Gaza".

"White phosphorus burns in contact with oxygen and causes deep burns when it touches human skin, sometimes reaching to the bone. The weapon is not illegal itself and can be used to provide a smokescreen on the battlefield or as an incendiary weapon against a military target. However, its use is regulated even by customary international law. It must be used in a way that distinguishes between combatants and civilians and cannot be used to target civilians"

Turn the other way and not notice it because it is done by the 'good guys' the IDF.

Double standards, same as with anything that happens to any member of the media in Israel is an accident from the IDF -or the USA in Iraq/Afhgan, but if it isn't them - then it's murdering the press and journalists to maintain power and fear..

 

[peteblue]

They have existed for an age, countries have had them for an age, when they have been used - most times they where used without any international interference or action as a consequence.

Millions of tons of this - 'not' a chemical weapon dropped - by our good ally in the 70's

Only country to ever use nuclear weapons 1940's - again our partner in the special relationship


So forgive us mate, if i call your pretence at humanitarian reasons utter bs.

I am not pretending anything about humanitarian reasons, it had nothing to do with humanitarian reasons, merely the observation of an agreement. Syria promised to get rid of those weapons, Russia acted as guarantor, the USA issued a red line as to what would happen if used, the weapons were used and the West responded by attacking the means of development and production without killing a single person. What is the problem....

 

[peteblue]

What threat does Syria pose to the UK mate?

Israel hasn't used chemical weapons, but the have used banned weapons mate - they used cluster bombs - where is the difference, both are banned for use? The US only have over a million of them in stock and in field too though so guess it's not that serious an international law banning them...

The Saudis don't use chemical weapons - nope mate because they are using state of the art US/Uk equipment, tanks, planes, bombs and other weaponry to kill people, but hey they aren't banned so who gives a care really

Oh but the Saudis did use in Yemen last year banned cluster bombs as well, these ones where made in the good old UK btw.

The Saudis don't face a civil war because they jail, torture or behead anyone who shows any dissent mate, that a good democratic thing in your opinion?

Syria, in itself, poses no threat. The fact it is producing chemical weapons that could fall into other hands and the fact that if allowed legitimises chemical weapons is a threat to the U.K.

You obviously have some concern over Israel and Saudi Arabia, in terms of threat to the U.K. there is none....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Both valid points. I think the problem is that we’ve got to a point where these sort of interventions are done to sate the calls of the media - Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya were all done with a thumbs up, we’ve won in a month type of deal. Nothing ever seems to be done with any appreciation of the actual socio-cultural situations of these countries and the West tries to impart it’s values on another part of the world.

In this case Russia has actually had normalised relations with Syria for decades, so might actually appreciate the situation a bit more than the cursory glance at Wikipedia approach we seem to take.

The west has flipped so many times on who we’d actually support as well - anti Assad / Pro Assad when Isis were a threat/anti Assad again. It’s just odd and we just seem in the dark.

Agree that we should do more from a humanitarian aspect, but in terms of actually trying to dictate changes we should be looking to be far less hands on.

No, and if nothing else I sympathise with those who ultimately make these decisions as you're often damned either way. The situation at the moment seems to be pretty crap for Syrians, and has been for some time. Neither intervening or not will make their lot any better in the short-medium term.

It's not just militarily either. William Easterly masterfully skewers the traditional approach to aid in The White Man's Burden, but I think importantly he doesn't say because a lot of aid has been ineffectual at best or worsened the situation at worst that we should stop trying, we just need to do so better.

Of course, you only tend to have military interventions when things have gotten a whole lot worse than situations requiring aid, so it's a much tougher problem. I guess the moral from my perspective is that there is no real right answer, and certainly no easy answer. It's why I can empathise with Blair, as whilst he was a smarmy toad in so many senses, I honestly believed he thought he was doing the right thing in Iraq.

 

[hullefc]

Double standards, same as with anything that happens to any member of the media in Israel is an accident from the IDF -or the USA in Iraq/Afhgan, but if it isn't them - then it's murdering the press and journalists to maintain power and fear..

Indeed.

MPs' vote halts UK action over Syria - BBC

In 2013 the UK parliament voted against UK military action in Syria. When was the vote changed so that the UK military could put boots on the ground?

British soldier killed by IED in Syria in first UK troop death in fight ...

 

[peteblue]

Human Rights Watch reveals extent of Israel's phosphorus use in Gaza

"In Gaza, the Israeli military didn't just use white phosphorus in open areas as a screen for its troops," said Fred Abrahams, a senior Human Rights Watch researcher. "It fired white phosphorus repeatedly over densely populated areas, even when its troops weren't in the area and safe smoke shells were available. As a result, civilians needlessly suffered and died." He said senior commanders should be held to account.

Human Rights Watch called on the UN secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, to launch an international commission of inquiry to investigate allegations of violations of international law in the Gaza war by the Israeli military and Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist movement that controls Gaza".

"White phosphorus burns in contact with oxygen and causes deep burns when it touches human skin, sometimes reaching to the bone. The weapon is not illegal itself and can be used to provide a smokescreen on the battlefield or as an incendiary weapon against a military target. However, its use is regulated even by customary international law. It must be used in a way that distinguishes between combatants and civilians and cannot be used to target civilians"

Turn the other way and not notice it because it is done by the 'good guys' the IDF.

So, are you advocating that we bomb Israel....any particular bits......

 

[hullefc]

Syria, in itself, poses no threat. The fact it is producing chemical weapons that could fall into other hands and the fact that if allowed legitimises chemical weapons is a threat to the U.K.

You obviously have some concern over Israel and Saudi Arabia, in terms of threat to the U.K. there is none....

Do you mean 'fall into the hands' of these people?

ISIS Used Chemical Arms at Least 52 Times in Syria and Iraq, Report Says
By ERIC SCHMITTNOV. 21, 2016

When did ISIS get chemical weapons from Syria to use in Iraq?

 

[peteblue]

Do you mean 'fall into the hands' of these people?

ISIS Used Chemical Arms at Least 52 Times in Syria and Iraq, Report Says
By ERIC SCHMITTNOV. 21, 2016

When did ISIS get chemical weapons from Syria to use in Iraq?

What point are you making.....

 

[hullefc]

So, are you advocating that we bomb Israel....any particular bits......

Give the all land, buildings and houses that were illegally taken off Palestinians back to their rightful owners. Let all the people sent into exile from Palestine return and then hold elections for a new government. Simple really.

 

[peteblue]

So there's going to be a bunch of moaning about not running the strikes through parliament today.

On one hand, I get it - I'd have preferred it too in this case, simply because the results of the attack weren't as important as sending a message. So even if they moved stuff out of the way, it wouldn't have mattered a whole lot.

That said, going through parliament is the equivalent of telling someone in a fight that you're about to throw a punch before throwing it. It's obviously not a smart thing to do.

Not just moaning, but pious handwringing of the most hypocritical nature.....

 

[peteblue]

Give the all land, buildings and houses that were illegally taken off Palestinians back to their rightful owners. Let all the people sent into exile from Palestine return and then hold elections for a new government. Simple really.

But which bits did you want us to bomb......

 

[hullefc]

What point are you making.....

Have you forgotten what you are on about?

"Syria, in itself, poses no threat. The fact it is producing chemical weapons that could fall into other hands'

The US has not got rid of its chemical weapons, unlike Russia. Do you advocate bombing the US so that its chemicals don't 'fall into the hands of others'? Which bits should the UK bomb?

 

[hullefc]

But which bits did you want us to bomb......

Seems you are having a bit of difficulty today.

"Give the all land, buildings and houses that were illegally taken off Palestinians back to their rightful owners. Let all the people sent into exile from Palestine return and then hold elections for a new government. Simple really".

 

[peteblue]

Have you forgotten what you are on about?

"Syria, in itself, poses no threat. The fact it is producing chemical weapons that could fall into other hands'

The US has not got rid of its chemical weapons, unlike Russia. Do you advocate bombing the US so that its chemicals don't 'fall into the hands of others'? Which bits should the UK bomb?

I don’t expect the USA to attack the U.K., do you......you seriously believe that Russia has got rid of its chemical weapons, honestly....

 

[hullefc]

Double standards, same as with anything that happens to any member of the media in Israel is an accident from the IDF -or the USA in Iraq/Afhgan, but if it isn't them - then it's murdering the press and journalists to maintain power and fear..

Interesting that Pete wants to see everywhere bombed.