Sod 'em

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Aside from a brief wave of optimism last summer (big spending, new stadium talks, u23s success, u20s wc winners etc) the general slide into apathy and depression with Everton continues at pace. Just when you think things can't grt any worse, they invariably do - when it comes to Everton.

Even though this fixture falls between two crucial cl matches for them, even though they could rest a few players, even though Salah might be out, even though, even though, even though....we will still lose.

Under Roy Hodgson / Kenny Daglish they had one of their worst sides. Paul Konchesky, Raul Mereiles, Andy Carroll, Jay Spearing, Stewart Downing etc and we still threw away a 2-1 lead at anfield and botched that semi when leading 1-0 with 30 mins to go. Their keeper that day was Brad Jones. WE STILL COULDN'T BEAT THEM.

As the post indicated, we invest emotionally in these games to such a high degree that we are crushed when we lose. I have taken a decision in recent years to reign in my emotional attachmemt to not just derbies but all matches unfortunately. This means I no longer get over excited when we win or score but more importantly I am not so dejected when we lose. I made this choice because Everton, more often than not made me miserable every weekend - a time when you should be off work enjoying life with friends and family.

How sad is that?

To be fair you mention those worst Liverpool sides, but the sad thing is that they were probably still better than us. They had Gerrard and Suaraz in those games, just look at our starting XI.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....l-news/evertons-2012-fa-cup-semi-11214356.amp
 
To be fair you mention those worst Liverpool sides, but the sad thing is that they were probably still better than us. They had Gerrard and Suaraz in those games, just look at our starting XI.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....l-news/evertons-2012-fa-cup-semi-11214356.amp
Mate we always have dire teams! Gueye! Secret weapon wasn't he? And that bench...wow. Although we did finish above them in the league that year. Which again indicates how bad they were.
 
Aside from a brief wave of optimism last summer (big spending, new stadium talks, u23s success, u20s wc winners etc) the general slide into apathy and depression with Everton continues at pace. Just when you think things can't grt any worse, they invariably do - when it comes to Everton.

Even though this fixture falls between two crucial cl matches for them, even though they could rest a few players, even though Salah might be out, even though, even though, even though....we will still lose.

Under Roy Hodgson / Kenny Daglish they had one of their worst sides. Paul Konchesky, Raul Mereiles, Andy Carroll, Jay Spearing, Stewart Downing etc and we still threw away a 2-1 lead at anfield and botched that semi when leading 1-0 with 30 mins to go. Their keeper that day was Brad Jones. WE STILL COULDN'T BEAT THEM.

As the post indicated, we invest emotionally in these games to such a high degree that we are crushed when we lose. I have taken a decision in recent years to reign in my emotional attachmemt to not just derbies but all matches unfortunately. This means I no longer get over excited when we win or score but more importantly I am not so dejected when we lose. I made this choice because Everton, more often than not made me miserable every weekend - a time when you should be off work enjoying life with friends and family.

How sad is that?

That's it really. We've missed our window of opportunity to beat them and potentially move past them. Since that period of time from 2009 to about 2013 they have kicked on and are now one of the best teams in the country, we stagnated and then regressed under some godawful management at every level at the club. We can't compete with them on or off the pitch, and it's probably going to be a long time before we see us beat them again.
 
Very very few of our players will bat an eyelid if they get heavily beaten. This fixture brings nothing but misery and high blood pressure if you get too badly invested in it, so yeah I'll probably watch, and yeah a win would be nice. But we're almost certainly not going to win and a comprehensive 3 nil away win is the most likely outcome. Even if we did pull off a miracle then 6 weeks of BFS going on about it would probably push me over the edge anyway.
 
You just know it will be a weakened Liverpool team, a 2nd string one, and we will still bottle it. No Salah can imagine Firmino and few others rested. Danny Ings to score the winner. Hopefully the final nail in Alladyce's coffin.
 
Very very few of our players will bat an eyelid if they get heavily beaten. This fixture brings nothing but misery and high blood pressure if you get too badly invested in it, so yeah I'll probably watch, and yeah a win would be nice. But we're almost certainly not going to win and a comprehensive 3 nil away win is the most likely outcome. Even if we did pull off a miracle then 6 weeks of BFS going on about it would probably push me over the edge anyway.

Same here. The far bigger picture to some flukey win at the weekend is getting rid of fatso and restructuring this fiasco of a club from top to bottom. We're light years away from where we want to be
 
Aside from a brief wave of optimism last summer (big spending, new stadium talks, u23s success, u20s wc winners etc) the general slide into apathy and depression with Everton continues at pace. Just when you think things can't grt any worse, they invariably do - when it comes to Everton.

Even though this fixture falls between two crucial cl matches for them, even though they could rest a few players, even though Salah might be out, even though, even though, even though....we will still lose.

Under Roy Hodgson / Kenny Daglish they had one of their worst sides. Paul Konchesky, Raul Mereiles, Andy Carroll, Jay Spearing, Stewart Downing etc and we still threw away a 2-1 lead at anfield and botched that semi when leading 1-0 with 30 mins to go. Their keeper that day was Brad Jones. WE STILL COULDN'T BEAT THEM.

As the post indicated, we invest emotionally in these games to such a high degree that we are crushed when we lose. I have taken a decision in recent years to reign in my emotional attachmemt to not just derbies but all matches unfortunately. This means I no longer get over excited when we win or score but more importantly I am not so dejected when we lose. I made this choice because Everton, more often than not made me miserable every weekend - a time when you should be off work enjoying life with friends and family.

How sad is that?

Exactly the same here. Sad in a way of course, but also very logical. In fact, probably the only sane thing to do
 
They really are flying arent they. We shouldn’t try to deny that.
With great disgust ive watched for years here that when the derby nears many fans tend to go on defensive setup and roll over.
And now when they have to play CL people are belittling the derby.
They trashed City yesterday thats huge, but they still have to keep their eye onnit, not over that.

I know many evertonians are thinking that if Everton win reds can belittle the result and that would somehow nullify the result ... that mentality transforms to 'not even arsed' attitude it seems ...

It absolutely is a situation of David and Goliath here. We just need to put our heart innit. If it tears up again so be it. But I hate if people are like this wouldnt matter.
For those who have given up already: remember that stats do not remember the surroundings of the derby result. It is what it is. And it stays there. So pull yer thumbs out of yer bums and get behind the grand old team.
We need to get our act together and get into them like rabid dogs.

We will win.
 
Great post, and I have to say that I actually hit this point a couple years ago. It's just simply not worth the emotional investment.
 
Jim Keoghan submitted an update to GrandOldTeam's homepage

Sod 'em
colemanliverpool-1024x461.jpg



Just after Everton had equalised in January’s FA Cup game, as my elation ebbed and the brief flurry of serotonin that had flooded my brain began to dissipate, natural Blue pessimism reasserted itself. With 20 minutes to go, I nudged the Red who was sat next to me, pointed to the tele and said ‘Van Dijk, header, 83rd minute’.

Although not completely accurate, my prophesy wasn’t far off (missing out by a few minutes). I’m no Nostradamus but when it comes to Derbies, there is a predictability to events that can give Blues a degree of foresight that could seem almost supernatural to outsiders.

In reality, this is simply borne from years of experience. With 20 minutes to go and Liverpool’s expensive debutant still on the pitch, in my jaundiced mind it seemed obvious that (1) he would score and (2) do so at a time that would make a fight back exceptionally unlikely.

That’s the point we have reached now with Liverpool. Our games have become almost boring in their predictability. While occasional surprises do occur (and I’m thinking here mainly of Rooney’s penalty), they are increasingly rare for us Blues. Far more common instead are events like Van Dijk’s goal, Mane’s winner and Gerrard’s hat-trick. As fans, we sort of know what might be coming before a ball has even been kicked.

With such predictability now attached to the game, perhaps, as supporters, we should stop caring so much? If a disappointing outcome is so frequently experienced, why expend such a high degree of emotional energy into these fixtures?

This is no defeatist cry, no desire to stop trying because ‘what’s the point?’ I still want Everton to win and I still want the team to perform well if they don’t. But I want that every week. Why want it more just because it’s our neighbours, and specifically because the likelihood that all that stress, anxiety and worry being worth it is so abjectly low.

Every Derby we whip ourselves into a pointless fervour. Our emotional investment in those games far outweighs what we put into any others. And we do it secure in the knowledge that come full time, we will likely feel like crap. Is it worth it? Might it not be better to treat the Derby like any other game?

Aside from less heartache, there are also other gains to be had if we stopped giving so much of a s**t about the Sh**e.

Take a minute and think about all the characteristics that you loathe in a football fan. I’m no mind reader but I bet that ‘qualities’ such as smugness, a sense of entitlement and a lack of perspective will feature. Equally, if you took time to think about the elements of a football club that you don’t like, things like a corporate mentality, a tourist fanbase and a manufactured sense of ‘fandom’ might pop up.

What’s being described here is Liverpool and its fans. And it’s these fans and this club that we have to engage with because of an accident of geography. How nice would it be if we simply stopped? Imagine caring less about the Derby and treating both it’s build up and aftermath in the same way that you would a fixture against Burnley. Imagine not engaging with their taunts, their gloating, their enduring smugness. They are unquestionably the worst fans in the country. Why the [Poor language removed] should it be us who have to constantly put up with them. We’ve done our shift, surely it’s somebody else's turn by now?

And the benefits don’t end there. In an era when the Sh**e have been eclipsed by former peers and clubs that were once lesser lights, the Derby has grown in significance for them. When you are no longer a big deal on the national or European stage, it gives comfort to Reds that they can still be kings in their own backyard.

And for the all the claims that they aren’t bothered by Everton, just a casual glance at the social media feeds of the likes of the Anfield Wrap, This is Anfield and The Redmen around Derby time will quickly dispel that notion. They absolutely care and for them the victory in the Derby is often the highpoint of the season.

And part of what make their victories taste so sweet is our reaction. To watch your local rival visibly crushed is one of the sweetest feelings in football. If we as fans were a little less bothered, then we take this away. What you ideally want is a win against Everton being no more satisfying to the Sh**e than a win against Brighton or West Brom.

For those reading who believe that local rivalries are an enduring and indelible part of football life, and therefore we should always place the Derby as a match above all others, consider this: Football has changed beyond recognition over the past twenty years. The ‘Liverpool’ that we once rivalled no longer exists. For over a century, both Merseyside ‘giants’ were local clubs, rooted in the community and reflective of it. As such, a rivalry on geographic terms made sense. But while Everton can still be said to adhere to the old model, the same cannot be said for the corporate monstrosity that resides across the park.

And if you want proof of how little Liverpool are rooted in the community, imagine picking up both Anfield and Goodison and relocating the stadiums somewhere else in the country. For Everton, the impact would likely be disastrous. For Liverpool, the impact would be negligible. Norwegians, South Koreans and the Irish would flock to Anfield, no matter where it was. Liverpool are a ‘Liverpool’ club in name alone. There is nothing ‘local’ about them anymore and so there is no reason for them to be our local rivals.

Through the club’s misfortunes and our own emotional investment, we have turned this fixture into something gruesome. It’s in our power, to make it something different. So why not, just for a change, greet this fixture calmly. Treat those lovable Red’s to a universal ‘meh!’
Quite right Jim, do we get extra points if we win, do we end up with -6 if we lose...as often happens, who needs to win a Derby
 
I think that's the point though pal. Can you imagine us giving them a 'good hiding'? We may somehow grab a spawny result, but unless we go out there and play, compete and deserve at least to get result, it means nothing to us fans.

In the FA cup game, I actually felt it was the one time this season where we did compete, and I got genuinely excited again watching us and cheering us on. We were unlucky - the wrong end of a dubious penalty decision away from a DESERVED draw or victory. Nothing before or since...

It would be a hollow victory if we scrambled a bus-parking, tactically inept 1-0 if all it did was give toad face some fanciful face-saving screen time to big up his already bloated ego.

We are a shadow of the teams that have fought and played with true passion for the past 10 years, from Moyes to Martinez to Koeman (1st season).
Trouble is mate I've seen us do and more - and still lose.

The rs B in L has been giving me the old...forms goes out the window gubbins and Dyche would be a good fit for youse
Would you have him
No way...Burnley ffs
I hate this game and I hate them, not the B in L he's decent sort, but he always reverts to full kopite mode for these game.
 
They really are flying arent they. We shouldn’t try to deny that.
With great disgust ive watched for years here that when the derby nears many fans tend to go on defensive setup and roll over.
And now when they have to play CL people are belittling the derby.
They trashed City yesterday thats huge, but they still have to keep their eye onnit, not over that.

I know many evertonians are thinking that if Everton win reds can belittle the result and that would somehow nullify the result ... that mentality transforms to 'not even arsed' attitude it seems ...

It absolutely is a situation of David and Goliath here. We just need to put our heart innit. If it tears up again so be it. But I hate if people are like this wouldnt matter.
For those who have given up already: remember that stats do not remember the surroundings of the derby result. It is what it is. And it stays there. So pull yer thumbs out of yer bums and get behind the grand old team.
We need to get our act together and get into them like rabid dogs.

We will win.

No we won't win. We have about 2 players in our entire squad who can be bothered to get up for the game.
 
They’ve not yet secured fourth (no matter how much they’re prematurely celebrating). Even a draw would be damaging for them. We need to make them earn it. I don’t care if we give it a go and get shafted by a ref, that’s happened loads, I can’t forgive complete non performances though.
 
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