Current Affairs Shemima Begum

[LEONARD]

you really need to learn to edit quotes better, either to include the source or to hide it so people can't read for themselves what the article actually says

Apologies, it was a blatant attempt to misrepresent her belief systems.

You tell me what she believes in.

 

[tsubaki]

Apologies, it was a blatant attempt to misrepresent her belief systems.

You tell me what she believes in.

I've no idea what she believes in, then or now. It is just shameful to present a heavily edited piece and claim it has anything to do with "renouncing terrorism", when (at least in that article, I've no idea whether it was asked in the Times original) it was a question that was never asked, and wouldn't have any effect on whether she came back here or not.

 

[LEONARD]

I've no idea what she believes in, then or now. It is just shameful to present a heavily edited piece and claim it has anything to do with "renouncing terrorism", when (at least in that article, I've no idea whether it was asked in the Times original) it was a question that was never asked, and wouldn't have any effect on whether she came back here or not.

She's not coming into our country, so we can stop this back and forth.

I will tell you what I believe in, tolerance, complete religious and political freedoms, total equality for women, and all LGBTQ People.

I cherish our Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, communities, the right of all to be atheists, join a trade union, and peacefully protest.

I want you and me to be able to walk down the street without fear of some random Jihadist with a knife-and or gun.

I love our freedoms and general sense of decency.

Unless we can get a sworn statement from Begum that she agrees with me, I don't want her in the UK.

 

[Amw79]

She's not coming into our country, so we can stop this back and forth.

I will tell you what I believe in, tolerance, complete religious and political freedoms, total equality for women, and all LGBTQ People.

I cherish our Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, communities, the right of all to be atheists, join a trade union, and peacefully protest.

I want you and me to be able to walk down the street without fear of some random Jihadist with a knife-and or gun.

I love our freedoms and general sense of decency.

Unless we can get a sworn statement from Begum that she agrees with me, I don't want her in the UK.

There’s people in here who wouldn’t sign off on that.

 

[Alan Whittle]

There’s people in here who wouldn’t sign off on that.

Especially “tolerance”.

 

[tsubaki]

She's not coming into our country, so we can stop this back and forth.

I will tell you what I believe in, tolerance, complete religious and political freedoms, total equality for women, and all LGBTQ People.

I cherish our Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, communities, the right of all to be atheists, join a trade union, and peacefully protest.

I want you and me to be able to walk down the street without fear of some random Jihadist with a knife-and or gun.

I love our freedoms and general sense of decency.

Unless we can get a sworn statement from Begum that she agrees with me, I don't want her in the UK.

No, you don't. Anyone who supports removing her citizenship on these grounds is not - cannot be - supporting our freedoms, because the precedent this sets completely trashes one of the most important of them.

It is my, your and almost everyone else who is born here to British parents right to be British citizens. This decision (especially taken in the way that it has) gives the possibility that it could be taken away, especially from second generation people but also from people whose descendants have been here for much longer than that as well. If the UK ever breaks up, this could come back to haunt a lot of people.

 

[random]

I never knew that anyone could be stateless until I read this thread, I did a bit of research (judicious use of google) couldn't believe that there are 12 million stateless people in the world, through no fault of their own and they seem to be stuck in whatever place they are at present.


What I am trying to figure out and haven't yet come across an answer...

If her family pay to get her back to the UK by surreptitious means and she was eventually discovered, I don't think we would be able to deport her as she in effect has no 'home' country to send her back to would we ?

If that did happen and she was found, does she get a 'fair' trial before getting thrown in the slammer ?
and for how long ?
what happens when the sentence expires? where does she go ?
What crime has she committed in the UK ? do we even have the right to put her in jail ?

Its a big mess and I wouldn't be surprised if this drags on for a good while yet

 

[tsubaki]

I never knew that anyone could be stateless until I read this thread, I did a bit of research (judicious use of google) couldn't believe that there are 12 million stateless people in the world, through no fault of their own and they seem to be stuck in whatever place they are at present.


What I am trying to figure out and haven't yet come across an answer...

If her family pay to get her back to the UK by surreptitious means and she was eventually discovered, I don't think we would be able to deport her as she in effect has no 'home' country to send her back to would we ?

If that did happen and she was found, does she get a 'fair' trial before getting thrown in the slammer ?
and for how long ?
what happens when the sentence expires? where does she go ?
What crime has she committed in the UK ? do we even have the right to put her in jail ?

Its a big mess and I wouldn't be surprised if this drags on for a good while yet

I think the only thing we can say with certainty is that she might then be able to appeal her loss of citizenship in that case.

They'd probably put her on trial for something, though what it would be is anyones guess.

 

[longers]

'Shemima Begum' sounds like the kind of name some female hard house dj would have used back in the early 00's.

Thats my valuable contribution to the thread

 

[coollino]

'Shemima Begum' sounds like the kind of name some female hard house dj would have used back in the early 00's.

Thats my valuable contribution to the thread

A muslimgauze alias from beyond the grave.

 

[Yarrgh]

I never knew that anyone could be stateless until I read this thread, I did a bit of research (judicious use of google) couldn't believe that there are 12 million stateless people in the world, through no fault of their own and they seem to be stuck in whatever place they are at present.


What I am trying to figure out and haven't yet come across an answer...

If her family pay to get her back to the UK by surreptitious means and she was eventually discovered, I don't think we would be able to deport her as she in effect has no 'home' country to send her back to would we ?

If that did happen and she was found, does she get a 'fair' trial before getting thrown in the slammer ?
and for how long ?
what happens when the sentence expires? where does she go ?
What crime has she committed in the UK ? do we even have the right to put her in jail ?

Its a big mess and I wouldn't be surprised if this drags on for a good while yet

If she got back into the UK, I think you are right. She gets to stay as there is nowhere to deport her to.

Has she done anything that deserves a trial under UK law, if so then yes. Then there is no reason to believe that she wouldn't go to prison (if found guilty) for the appropriate sentence as per a 'UK citizen' being found guilty at trial. When the imprisonment expires, she is stateless so the UK can't deport her.

She could in fact make a claim for citizenship as far as I can read into the matter if she found herself back on these shores. In fact, given her familial connection to the UK and being raised here, she'd probably have as decent a case as anyone, especially if found innocent (or served her sentence and showed appropriate remorse). In fact if she didn't stand trial as no case was made against her in the UK, then there there would be no reason to deny her claim to citizenship (so more than likely she'd be charged with something with heavy sentencing would be my guess).

I don't see the British government not keeping track of such a high profile case so don't see this as an immediate concern. If she went off radar though, I think you'd get the answer in a non-hypothetical way. One thing for sure, is that the law comes to some strange seemingly rulings that contradict what public sentiment would be.

I fully agree about it being a big mess. And like anything involving the law and politics, there's plenty of legs in it to carry on for a loooong time.

@tsubaki said more in 2 lines than I pontificated over several paragraphs!!!

 

[Blue 1]

'Shemima Begum' sounds like the kind of name some female hard house dj would have used back in the early 00's.

Thats my valuable contribution to the thread

Lisa 50 Lashes.

 

[dead_soft]

She's not coming into our country, so we can stop this back and forth.

I will tell you what I believe in, tolerance, complete religious and political freedoms, total equality for women, and all LGBTQ People.

I cherish our Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, communities, the right of all to be atheists, join a trade union, and peacefully protest.

I want you and me to be able to walk down the street without fear of some random Jihadist with a knife-and or gun.

I love our freedoms and general sense of decency.

Unless we can get a sworn statement from Begum that she agrees with me, I don't want her in the UK.

Stirring violins play whilst the Union Jack flies and this great nation's protectors demand everyone signs a pledge of allegiance to the Queen, to tolerance and to freedom

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

She's not coming into our country, so we can stop this back and forth.

I will tell you what I believe in, tolerance, complete religious and political freedoms, total equality for women, and all LGBTQ People.

I cherish our Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, communities, the right of all to be atheists, join a trade union, and peacefully protest.

I want you and me to be able to walk down the street without fear of some random Jihadist with a knife-and or gun.

I love our freedoms and general sense of decency.

Unless we can get a sworn statement from Begum that she agrees with me, I don't want her in the UK.

She will end up here, and rightfully so

 

[Tubey]

She's not coming into our country, so we can stop this back and forth.

I will tell you what I believe in, tolerance, complete religious and political freedoms, total equality for women, and all LGBTQ People.

I cherish our Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, communities, the right of all to be atheists, join a trade union, and peacefully protest.

I want you and me to be able to walk down the street without fear of some random Jihadist with a knife-and or gun.

I love our freedoms and general sense of decency.

Unless we can get a sworn statement from Begum that she agrees with me, I don't want her in the UK.

What would that solve? She'd sign it with a smile on her face, not meaning a bit of it.