Current Affairs Shemima Begum

[Mutzo Nutzo]

That's the crux of the matter in this it's not just her.
Said this a while a go, she may or not be a danger are the others ?
Cant realistically see the government taking the chance.
.

Exactly this.

The ones still out there (either on the loose or in jail) are the real dangers. Bomb makers and planners.

 

[tsubaki]

I agree, she’s no threat to anyone. The U.K. govt IMO is worried that if she won her right to return they would face a
deluge of legal challenges as others look to return.

I doubt that very much - the people they are worried about aren’t in the same boat as Begum (they’re either clearly British or dual nationals, and they’ve been able to strip those of citizenship entirely legally).

Besides, if they genuinely did think she was no threat and were doing this because of other people then she’d win her case in about three seconds.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

I doubt that very much - the people they are worried about aren’t in the same boat as Begum (they’re either clearly British or dual nationals, and they’ve been able to strip those of citizenship entirely legally).

Besides, if they genuinely did think she was no threat and were doing this because of other people then she’d win her case in about three seconds.

I think that is the reality and they’ve made it as hard as possible for her to plead her case. She is now faced with running a legal challenge from a refugee camp with limited access to her legal team.

They’re taking no chances here. I think the appropriate turn of phrase here is ‘nipping it in the bud’

oh and in relation to the ones they’re worried about. There are at least 10 of them in jails in Syria and Iraq who are 100% U.K. born and bred with U.K. university degrees in Electronic engineering.

Bomb-makers

 

[peteblue]

Perspective is good isn't it? We had as many people die from Covid over a weekend during January as we have had killed by terrorists in the past 50 years (and the vast majority of those were IRA related rather than from Muslim ray-guns). Since 9/11, there have been an average of 7 deaths per year from terrorism, with nearly all of those resulting from the Tube attack in London and the Manchester bombing. In other words, for most of us it's practically no threat at all.

Nobody set out to kill the people who died from Covid, bad people set out to kill those who died via terrorism.....unless China deliberately released Covid19, then there is no comparison......

 

[peteblue]

I think that is the reality and they’ve made it as hard as possible for her to plead her case. She is now faced with running a legal challenge from a refugee camp with limited access to her legal team.

They’re taking no chances here. I think the appropriate turn of phrase here is ‘nipping it in the bud’

oh and in relation to the ones they’re worried about. There are at least 10 of them in jails in Syria and Iraq who are 100% U.K. born and bred with U.K. university degrees in Electronic engineering.

Bomb-makers

And they can all stay there......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I hear you, but try and sell that to the families of the Manchester bombing.

In my opinion the U.K. govt should have allowed this girl back into the country to plead her case properly in a court of law. I don’t see her personally as a threat to anyone, but I can also see the other side of the coin. If she did win then the legal precedent would have been set and the floodgates would open, allowing a lot of really bad guys would come back to these shores.

The U.K. govt was so concerned about the threat of these types returning from Syria that they dispatched special forces into the region with kill orders against U.K. born jihadis. Unfortunately a lot of them ended up in Iraqi and Kurdish jails, making slotting them extremely difficult. They did bag a fair few though.

I don't doubt the victims of any crime suffer enormously from it, but the government's job is to take a proportionate response to that having done a balanced risk analysis, and the fact is that terrorism poses precious little risk to us, and especially so when we're not engaged in overseas wars that encourage retaliatory attacks on our shores.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

I don't doubt the victims of any crime suffer enormously from it, but the government's job is to take a proportionate response to that having done a balanced risk analysis, and the fact is that terrorism poses precious little risk to us, and especially so when we're not engaged in overseas wars that encourage retaliatory attacks on our shores.

But we are engaged in overseas wars that do encourage retaliatory attacks on our shores.

We still have boots on the ground fighting Islamic extremists in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Mali and Libya. So the threat is still there, it hasn’t gone away.

Terrorism or rather asymmetric warfare by its very nature can with a relatively small act have a greater effect on an opponent or nation state. So yes there is a limited threat, however even a “small” act of terror can have a big impact overall. By that I mean it has the ability to bring distrust, fear and anger amongst diverse cultural groups within a country that suffers the attack.

The Government is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t. As an example, if they let these U.K. isis fighters back in and there was a subsequent “related” terror attack in U.K. soil then the govt would get hung out to dry. Likewise if they strip nationalities and deny them entry to the U.K. to contest their cases it is seen as inhuman.

I see it as a case of risk assessment and mitigation. The government are in possession of far more active, relevant intelligence on these matters than either you or I. It is their job to manage the risk as they see fit, as long as it follows the rule of law. In the case if Shemima Begum I feel she is being made a scapegoat and her case is being used as a defining line in the sand.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But we are engaged in overseas wars that do encourage retaliatory attacks on our shores.

We still have boots on the ground fighting Islamic extremists in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Mali and Libya. So the threat is still there, it hasn’t gone away.

Terrorism or rather asymmetric warfare by its very nature can with a relatively small act have a greater effect on an opponent or nation state. So yes there is a limited threat, however even a “small” act of terror can have a big impact overall. By that I mean it has the ability to bring distrust, fear and anger amongst diverse cultural groups within a country that suffers the attack.

The Government is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t. As an example, if they let these U.K. isis fighters back in and there was a subsequent “related” terror attack in U.K. soil then the govt would get hung out to dry. Likewise if they strip nationalities and deny them entry to the U.K. to contest their cases it is seen as inhuman.

I see it as a case of risk assessment and mitigation. The government are in possession of far more active, relevant intelligence on these matters than either you or I. It is their job to manage the risk as they see fit, as long as it follows the rule of law. In the case if Shemima Begum I feel she is being made a scapegoat and her case is being used as a defining line in the sand.

I quite agree, but that generally comes about when governments overreact though, doesn't it? Hence why most people have a massively exaggerated sense of the risk of terrorism from Muslims and from immigrants, when in reality the risk from both is miniscule.

You would hope in any just country, however, that people would be able to go through a fair legal process without either being assassinated on foreign soil or stripped of their citizenship. It's those kind of liberal norms that we are defending from terrorists after all.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

I quite agree, but that generally comes about when governments overreact though, doesn't it? Hence why most people have a massively exaggerated sense of the risk of terrorism from Muslims and from immigrants, when in reality the risk from both is miniscule.

You would hope in any just country, however, that people would be able to go through a fair legal process without either being assassinated on foreign soil or stripped of their citizenship. It's those kind of liberal norms that we are defending from terrorists after all.

I think the risk is not overly exaggerated, it’s real and poses danger to people’s lives and infrastructure here in the U.K.

It’s a fact if modern society that governments around the world have to assess and manage the situation as they see fit.

It is a sad situation in that we we are faced with the reality of stripping citizens of their nationality and sanctioning hits on them overseas. However these are the times we live in.

We can debate the semantics all day long, but it’s not going to alter the reality of the situation . The U.K. government sees a real and present danger posed to our society by these U.K. born Jihadi fighters and will do whatever it takes to keep them out.

 

[LEONARD]

Would YOU like her to move next door to you though?

I've got an RS beaut living next door.

I would welcome any Islamo-fascist as a more preferable option.

 

[LEONARD]

Just thank God that JC never made it to PM.

He would have her flown to the UK, first class ( at our expense).

Set her up in a nice drum (at our expense).

Then blamed Israel when she ran amok with a big rucksack on her back.

 

[coollino]

Just thank God that JC never made it to PM.

He would have her flown to the UK, first class ( at our expense).

Set her up in a nice drum (at our expense).

Then blamed Israel when she ran amok with a big rucksack on her back.

Would he actually have done that?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Would he actually have done that?

I would hope so. Be Gammonagedden in here

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Know many folks in here will disagree, but the overarching narrative for this would be very different if she was a pretty, blonde, middle-class white girl.

 

[Kurt.]

Know many folks in here will disagree, but the overarching narrative for this would be very different if she was a pretty, blonde, middle-class white girl.

If she owned a pub pete would have gone out there to bring her back himself lol