Sam Allardyce

[davek]

A load of dead EL games!? We had half of the group games to play! We were very much in the competition until Unsworth got 2 absolute hammerings.

We had 1 point from nine and were all but out when Koeman was sacked. PL points were the priority.

 

[Khalekan]

I think this is a very fair and reasoned analysis.

I was not in full panic mode either but my main concern was that another 2 or 3 defeats after Southampton, would just have contributed more to a sense amongst the players and the whole club that things were out of control, and would begin to resemble a runaway train heading to the cliffs. I just didn't want us to be heading into a hectic Christmas period badly needing points. Sam has done brilliantly to avoid that scenario, though I do think it is poor form of him to claim credit for the West Ham result. The players would have undoubtedly responded to his appointment, but credit for that result goes entirely to Unsworth as far as I see it. He took criticism when warranted, so deserves plaudits too by the same standard.

It's somewhat of a game of high stakes poker - absolutely nobody could predict with certainty that we would recover under a new manager, Sam or someone else, let alone do so quickly. I'm glad that Moshiri acted as and when he did - he should have done it sooner.

When did Sam claim credit for the Hammers result?

 

[davek]

If Sam isn’t sat in the Directors box as the King elect for the WHU game then we don’t get that result imo. The new manager gave us the extra few % that makes the difference, Unsworth had shown no signs of being able to get that kind of uplift from those players.

You confirm what I stated in essence: anyone installed as new FT manager would get a reaction. Unsworth was never allowed that opportunity, but he got 7 points from 15 available while he was here out of players who basically weren't out to impress and put their best effort in.

 

[davek]

I think you vastly underrate Sam. You make him sound like Pulis, except more motivated by money. He’s much more than that. He did a Moyes type job at tiny little Bolton, only he managed to persuade genuinely world class players to go to the Reebok, and more importantly, keep them happy. He’s a superb man manager, and he’s got that bit of snide which Evertonians love. I can only see his contract being extended in the summer, and I think he will be mad keen to go head to head with Klopp et al on a regular basis.

I dont underestimate him at all. He's a good organiser and man manager. But he's very limited in his method. He has one style of attacking play and it's to use battering ram forwards to excess. It's primitive and eventually useless against all but other backward thinking coaches.

Any spells of decent football you see at the moment is when we get a goal up and from players who can pretty much only play that way. That would change very quickly if Allardyce were given 2/3 windows to get shut of some and hire his own players.

 

[Kev50]

I dont underestimate him at all. He's a good organiser and man manager. But he's very limited in his method. He has one style of attacking play and it's to use battering ram forwards to excess. It's primitive and eventually useless against all but other backward thinking coaches.

Any spells of decent football you see at the moment is when we get a goal up and from players who can pretty much only play that way. That would change very quickly if Allardyce were given 2/3 windows to get shut of some and hire his own players.

Nicolas Anelka Okocha, Djorkaeff et al would I think disagree

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

You confirm what I stated in essence: anyone installed as new FT manager would get a reaction. Unsworth was never allowed that opportunity, but he got 7 points from 15 available while he was here out of players who basically weren't out to impress and put their best effort in.

Maybe, but my counter to that would be would they have had enough respect for his status as a manager at this level to inspire that level of performance?

Not so sure myself, as if they were fully behind him they’d have played for him from the day he was given the caretaker role.

 

[davek]

Nicolas Anelka Okocha, Djorkaeff et al would I think disagree

In how many years of management?

They are atypical of the players SA uses.

 

[Kev50]

Thanks for the invaluable feedback Kev, you're a credit to the forum.

fair enough, it was rude. but your post was unbelievably unfair I thought. We were in deep deep trouble a few weeks ago, we looked like a busted flush, a disastrous team, appalling performances, worst team in the league by a mile. Allardyce comes in and gives us 13 points from 15 and you say, 'yeah, anyone could have done that'

 

[davek]

Maybe, but my counter to that would be would they have had enough respect for his status as a manager at this level to inspire that level of performance?

Not so sure myself, as if they were fully behind him they’d have played for him from the day he was given the caretaker role.

...enough to at least continue the rate of points accumulation under him as a caretaker manager - which would have been easily enough to get us safe and to the summer when matters re the manager could be reassessed.

 

[Kev50]

In how many years of management?

They are atypical of the players SA uses.

In how many years of management?

They are atypical of the players SA uses.

I disagree. he recruited them, they are all outstanding talents, throw Campo in there as well. Cahill. It's just he couldn't afford to recruit such players when he had W Ham Palace and Sunderland and so cut his cloth. And more importantly, he can handle big egos. Look at the way Rooney is playing, he kept Anelka happy for two years, and Diouf, who else has done that?

 

[Lanolin]

fair enough, it was rude. but your post was unbelievably unfair I thought. We were in deep deep trouble a few weeks ago, we looked like a busted flush, a disastrous team, appalling performances, worst team in the league by a mile. Allardyce comes in and gives us 13 points from 15 and you say, 'yeah, anyone could have done that'

Except I didn't say that at all.

What I'm trying to say is that Allardyce has done well - I would go as far as to say he's done as much as could realistically be expected from him. I have no issues whatsoever with what he's done so far, and if we carry on picking up points like this I will be a very happy man indeed.

What you appear to have done is missed the context of what I was saying. It was in direct response to somebody saying that they had feared relegation and that they didn't believe other managers could have turned things round like Allardyce has done. I'm simply saying I disagree with both of those ideas. I never thought we were going to go down, and I believe the favourable fixtures after he too over meant that many managers could have had a similar impact. That's not to detract from what Allardyce has done, just to dampen some of the hysteria about both our previous predicament and our current one.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

4th.

lollollol

 

[Kev50]

Except I didn't say that at all.

What I'm trying to say is that Allardyce has done well - I would go as far as to say he's done as much as could realistically be expected from him. I have no issues whatsoever with what he's done so far, and if we carry on picking up points like this I will be a very happy man indeed.

What you appear to have done is missed the context of what I was saying. It was in direct response to somebody saying that they had feared relegation and that they didn't believe other managers could have turned things round like Allardyce has done. I'm simply saying I disagree with both of those ideas. I never thought we were going to go down, and I believe the favourable fixtures after he too over meant that many managers could have had a similar impact. That's not to detract from what Allardyce has done, just to dampen some of the hysteria about both our previous predicament and our current one.

but it is to detract from what he has done you are saying that what he's done is what most respectable managers could have done. When in fact what he has done is pretty remarkable, taken us from the worst team to the team with the best run of results in the league other than City. and to say, 'anyone could beat Huddersfield Swansea Newcastle' is just wrong they are not 'gimme' games, there are no such in the PL. And if you weren't fearing relegation after the run of form we had til Sam took over, then I think you must have been confusing Everton with another team

 

[TommyDavo]

A load of dead EL games!? We had half of the group games to play! We were very much in the competition until Unsworth got 2 absolute hammerings.

Unsworth was way out of his depth till Sam came and schooled him for the WHam game.

 

[BlueToff]

I dont underestimate him at all. He's a good organiser and man manager. But he's very limited in his method. He has one style of attacking play and it's to use battering ram forwards to excess. It's primitive and eventually useless against all but other backward thinking coaches.

Any spells of decent football you see at the moment is when we get a goal up and from players who can pretty much only play that way. That would change very quickly if Allardyce were given 2/3 windows to get shut of some and hire his own players.

Hmmm

This isn't the case though?

I'm not saying he's an amazing coach - he isn't.

But what he does do is utilise the squad he has available. At Bolton, when they had Okocha etc, they played good footy because the players enabled that.

At West Ham, he had to get them out of the Championship and then find a way to stabilise them in the Prem - he did that.

Barring England, this is the best squad he's had to work with. Look at the goals we've scored so far under him.

Bar the Liverpool penalty, none have come from hoof balls, and two have come from passing moves as slick and incisive as some of the stuff we got under Martinez in 13/14.

Allardyce will be happy to work with what he has. He hasn't got a 'type' as such - it depends on what the team needs.