Sam Allardyce

[Cork Evertonian]

I suspect Saturday brings us back down to Earth with a bump tbh. The naysayers will be out in force I reckon

Well hopefully Everton will win and keep them at bay for another while!

#Big Sams Royal Blue Army

 

[Aries]

If Sam isn’t sat in the Directors box as the King elect for the WHU game then we don’t get that result imo. The new manager gave us the extra few % that makes the difference, Unsworth had shown no signs of being able to get that kind of uplift from those players.

Agree. Think I read he also spent 10/15 minutes with the players before the game? He definitely had an influence on that result IMO.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Well hopefully Everton will win and keep them at bay for another while!

#Big Sams Royal Blue Army

I hope you’re right mate

I love Cork btw, cracking place

 

[blue61]

Walk towards the light unbelievers.

 

[ham2]

Off topic a bit but that Watford forum are proper hating on silva! Who’d have thunk it

 

[miff]

Off topic a bit but that Watford forum are proper hating on silva! Who’d have thunk it

 

[bernie inn]

As far as I’m concerned, Sam keeps the job for as long as he’s successful in it, be it 6 months 12 months or 10 years. Really really didn’t want him here, but I’ve changed my mind now, he’s been a revelation. Got the most dysfunctional set of players in the league playing for each other and getting results. Long may it continue

 

[Bluerobins]

The reason some people are arguing that Sam had no influence on the West Ham game

As far as I’m concerned, Sam keeps the job for as long as he’s successful in it, be it 6 months 12 months or 10 years. Really really didn’t want him here, but I’ve changed my mind now, he’s been a revelation. Got the most dysfunctional set of players in the league playing for each other and getting results. Long may it continue

This and he got the West Ham result

 

[MickA]

Unsy did not stop the slide, and you cannot ignore the other games outside the Pl, it was the chance for Unsy to select the team, get tactics sorted and win the games to convince the board he was right for the job. He failed.

And that was why he was doomed from the start IMO.

He was hung out to dry by the board. They wanted a man to get us through the tougher fixtures but they left him in a position where he felt he had to try and be expansive with a set of players who at the time looked like they couldn't give a toss. There were people on here slating him for not going for Lyon's throat away, the same Lyon who walked thorugh us in 2nd gear at home, the fella couldn't win.

Had he been told he wasn't in contention he could have set out 2 banks of 4 to get some shape and confidence back into the players but he wasn't allowed to.

This isn't me saying he would have been good enough to get the job but I do think the players would have responded more had he been given the status of permanent manager.

 

[brieverton]

I don’t think I’m a panic merchant but I’ll be honest I was becoming concerned after Southampton,. we were on our second manager of the season, the players clearly didn’t give a t*ss, the squad was a mess in terms of its make up (loads of tens, lacking a striker and a left back) , confidence was fast evaporating and it didn’t look like we had a plan .

We looked like one of those teams that you see in a relegation battle and wonder “how the F*** did that happen ?” . We can see some fans still now think unsworth had turned the form round whilst plenty think that we’d never be dragged into a fight . Koeman position became untenable, we were awful against Leicester, spawned the points against Watford, were far than impressive against what was then a still struggling palace and then came Atalanta and the now notorious performance at Southampton.

I must admit after the humiliating 4-1 performance at a then struggling Southampton which followed so quickly on from our 1-5 annihilation at home to Atalanta (admittedly with a weaker side in a dead rubber), I felt change was urgently needed fast.

We acted and the new manager was watching on as they then perhaps not so miraculously seriously upped their game and put in a performance against West Ham.

I haven't changed my view that we were seriously on the slide prior to West Ham and in danger of getting beyond a point where recovery was at all likely or at best an extremely tall order.

For me Allardyce was very much needed, or at least a change of manager, I was actually wanting Dyche, but we still have the same unbalanced squad with the same personnel and a lot of the problems haven't vanished. It was imperative we started beating any team we face and getting points on the board to stop the rot and reverse a decline that was about to become much more serious.

Sam has done all that could reasonably have been asked of him, the football can never be great with our existing shortcomings still very much in evidence, but we can in the short term become much harder to beat, and this he's achieved.

We haven't suddenly become a great attacking side but it was never realistic to expect that, get results move forward and then on to the next step.

My worry was if we’d got it wrong , I can give you a list of talented managers that have done a great job before they’ve got a job and often after but just been the wrong appointment for a particular club at a particular time, they just haven’t fitted the dynamic and things have gone wrong . We couldn’t afford that, we just couldn’t and if you’re moshiri with grand plans and ideas you absolutely can’t take that chance . We’re all emotionally invested in Everton and it’s important to us he’s got a lot of money tied up in us not being that team that’s again too good to go down but does even if it was very unlikely .

I don’t think I worried , particularly about relegation when it all went wrong under Martinez . Well I don’t feel like I did other than the usual depression but I’m not going to lie I was starting to become worried. Not we’re doomed worried but absolutely an appointment must be made now worried.

The fact that the battling and fairly fortunate point at Palace was followed by the admittedly inconsequential 5-1 drubbing at home to Atalanta and the truly horrific 4-1 capitulation to a struggling goal shy Southampton outfit, just sharpened the sense of urgency.

It was the Southampton game more than any other and the pitiful performance plus the lack of any idea on basic defending that really scared me.

Other managers maybe could have turned it around, some here think nothing was more certain, I think it possibly the case but not definitely, and certainly not so quickly.

I wasn't particularly wanting Allardyce but did think that he represented our best chance. The situation was serious enough and threatening to become far worse. If confidence dips so badly and defeat becomes just the norm, the only doubt being by how many, then the situation can become one of irreversible decline and we were sliding into just that.

I think this is a very fair and reasoned analysis.

I was not in full panic mode either but my main concern was that another 2 or 3 defeats after Southampton, would just have contributed more to a sense amongst the players and the whole club that things were out of control, and would begin to resemble a runaway train heading to the cliffs. I just didn't want us to be heading into a hectic Christmas period badly needing points. Sam has done brilliantly to avoid that scenario, though I do think it is poor form of him to claim credit for the West Ham result. The players would have undoubtedly responded to his appointment, but credit for that result goes entirely to Unsworth as far as I see it. He took criticism when warranted, so deserves plaudits too by the same standard.

It's somewhat of a game of high stakes poker - absolutely nobody could predict with certainty that we would recover under a new manager, Sam or someone else, let alone do so quickly. I'm glad that Moshiri acted as and when he did - he should have done it sooner.

 

[Kev50]

It depends on Moshiri's thinking I suppose. If he's just looking to keep the club out of relegation troubles and calm investor nerves for the stadium then maybe Allardyce will be allowed to carry on. If, however, there's a determination to higher the club's profile as one that's going places and capable of attracting the very best then Allardyce is out of whack with those ambitions.

I believe the whole Allardyce episode has been an embarrassing admission of failure for Moshiri and it'll be one he'll try and expunge at the first opportunity - this summer if the cup isn't won or a EL place secured.

We'll hit a bump in the road with Allardyce shortly and most people will see the wisdom of moving him out quickly.

I think you vastly underrate Sam. You make him sound like Pulis, except more motivated by money. He’s much more than that. He did a Moyes type job at tiny little Bolton, only he managed to persuade genuinely world class players to go to the Reebok, and more importantly, keep them happy. He’s a superb man manager, and he’s got that bit of snide which Evertonians love. I can only see his contract being extended in the summer, and I think he will be mad keen to go head to head with Klopp et al on a regular basis.

 

[Prevenger17]

I love Cork btw, cracking place

It's a dump, and their accent is all over the place.

Actually great for a weekend away, good craic

 

[Lanolin]

I don’t think I’m a panic merchant but I’ll be honest I was becoming concerned after Southampton,. we were on our second manager of the season, the players clearly didn’t give a t*ss, the squad was a mess in terms of its make up (loads of tens, lacking a striker and a left back) , confidence was fast evaporating and it didn’t look like we had a plan .

We looked like one of those teams that you see in a relegation battle and wonder “how the F*** did that happen ?” . We can see some fans still now think unsworth had turned the form round whilst plenty think that we’d never be dragged into a fight . Koeman position became untenable, we were awful against Leicester, spawned the points against Watford, were far than impressive against what was then a still struggling palace and then came Atalanta and the now notorious performance at Southampton.

I must admit after the humiliating 4-1 performance at a then struggling Southampton which followed so quickly on from our 1-5 annihilation at home to Atalanta (admittedly with a weaker side in a dead rubber), I felt change was urgently needed fast.

We acted and the new manager was watching on as they then perhaps not so miraculously seriously upped their game and put in a performance against West Ham.

I haven't changed my view that we were seriously on the slide prior to West Ham and in danger of getting beyond a point where recovery was at all likely or at best an extremely tall order.

For me Allardyce was very much needed, or at least a change of manager, I was actually wanting Dyche, but we still have the same unbalanced squad with the same personnel and a lot of the problems haven't vanished. It was imperative we started beating any team we face and getting points on the board to stop the rot and reverse a decline that was about to become much more serious.

Sam has done all that could reasonably have been asked of him, the football can never be great with our existing shortcomings still very much in evidence, but we can in the short term become much harder to beat, and this he's achieved.

We haven't suddenly become a great attacking side but it was never realistic to expect that, get results move forward and then on to the next step.

My worry was if we’d got it wrong , I can give you a list of talented managers that have done a great job before they’ve got a job and often after but just been the wrong appointment for a particular club at a particular time, they just haven’t fitted the dynamic and things have gone wrong . We couldn’t afford that, we just couldn’t and if you’re moshiri with grand plans and ideas you absolutely can’t take that chance . We’re all emotionally invested in Everton and it’s important to us he’s got a lot of money tied up in us not being that team that’s again too good to go down but does even if it was very unlikely .

I don’t think I worried , particularly about relegation when it all went wrong under Martinez . Well I don’t feel like I did other than the usual depression but I’m not going to lie I was starting to become worried. Not we’re doomed worried but absolutely an appointment must be made now worried.

The fact that the battling and fairly fortunate point at Palace was followed by the admittedly inconsequential 5-1 drubbing at home to Atalanta and the truly horrific 4-1 capitulation to a struggling goal shy Southampton outfit, just sharpened the sense of urgency.

It was the Southampton game more than any other and the pitiful performance plus the lack of any idea on basic defending that really scared me.

Other managers maybe could have turned it around, some here think nothing was more certain, I think it possibly the case but not definitely, and certainly not so quickly.

I wasn't particularly wanting Allardyce but did think that he represented our best chance. The situation was serious enough and threatening to become far worse. If confidence dips so badly and defeat becomes just the norm, the only doubt being by how many, then the situation can become one of irreversible decline and we were sliding into just that.

You make some fair points but I honestly don't think we were ever going to go down whoever came in.

I think it's really important to acknowledge just how important it is to have somebody as a manager. The situation with Unsworth got a bit silly, he was trying to impress enough to get the job so maybe made some decisions he wouldn't necessarily have done otherwise, and the players weren't too bothered what he thought of them because he wasn't their long term boss. A feeling of negativity surrounded the club as they were being laughed at in the press and fans were panicking. As soon as somebody was appointed permanently all the problems are eradicated, so I think whoever it was would have had things a bit easier.

Yes Southampton and Atalanta were bad, but it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that is some sort of guarantee of things spiralling out of control when the reality is stuff like that happens all the time. Last season we only won one of 11 games in the lead up to Christmas, including losing to such wonderful sides as Norwich, Burnley, Bournemouth and Watford, and being thoroughly embarrassed 5-0 by Chelsea. We didn't get relegated though, we found a way of playing that worked and put a run together. I always believed the same would happen again, not just through blind faith but because logic suggested it would. We'd already won 4 home games before Allardyce took over so Huddersfield and Swansea were virtual gimmes with the sort of form they've been in. Newcastle are possibly the worst side in the league but a win was a nice bonus as I'd forgotten what away wins were like. The derby was a weird one, in that it was an absolutely awful performance but a good result. How much of that was due to some new resilience/confidence and how much was just pure luck I don't know, but i'll take it either way.

In short, Allardyce is doing well so far and deserves credit, but anyone who thinks this couldn't have happened under any number of managers is either kidding themselves or doesn't watch a lot of football.

 

[Kev50]

You make some fair points but I honestly don't think we were ever going to go down whoever came in.

I think it's really important to acknowledge just how important it is to have somebody as a manager. The situation with Unsworth got a bit silly, he was trying to impress enough to get the job so maybe made some decisions he wouldn't necessarily have done otherwise, and the players weren't too bothered what he thought of them because he wasn't their long term boss. A feeling of negativity surrounded the club as they were being laughed at in the press and fans were panicking. As soon as somebody was appointed permanently all the problems are eradicated, so I think whoever it was would have had things a bit easier.

Yes Southampton and Atalanta were bad, but it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that is some sort of guarantee of things spiralling out of control when the reality is stuff like that happens all the time. Last season we only won one of 11 games in the lead up to Christmas, including losing to such wonderful sides as Norwich, Burnley, Bournemouth and Watford, and being thoroughly embarrassed 5-0 by Chelsea. We didn't get relegated though, we found a way of playing that worked and put a run together. I always believed the same would happen again, not just through blind faith but because logic suggested it would. We'd already won 4 home games before Allardyce took over so Huddersfield and Swansea were virtual gimmes with the sort of form they've been in. Newcastle are possibly the worst side in the league but a win was a nice bonus as I'd forgotten what away wins were like. The derby was a weird one, in that it was an absolutely awful performance but a good result. How much of that was due to some new resilience/confidence and how much was just pure luck I don't know, but i'll take it either way.

In short, Allardyce is doing well so far and deserves credit, but anyone who thinks this couldn't have happened under any number of managers is either kidding themselves or doesn't watch a lot of football.

wow, what an absolute load of rubbish that post is

 

[Lanolin]

wow, what an absolute load of rubbish that post is

Thanks for the invaluable feedback Kev, you're a credit to the forum.