Ross Barkley

[BlueToff]

That's just putting all the blame onto a player and finding every avenue you can to position the manager as the innocent party. It's not what's happened. Koeman had this lad in his sights from day one. Anyone who doesn't concede that point are kidding themselves. He's not leaving under his own steam, he's been singled out and targeted and it isn't down to cash...the old fall back position of the jilted footy fan who just love to have a Judas to throw stones at.

Ross Barkley will leave because at the end of the day he is a certain type of footballer who doesn't fit this manager's 'style'. All the rest is spin and bollocks to portray the player in a bad light.

You're a weird one Dave.

No, he didn't. And no, I am in no way saying Koeman is 'innocent' or Ross is 'guilty'.

My point is, the one thing that Ross should have really done is clarify with the club whether he was signing before the end of the season.

That's it. Other than that, I'm with @Mikey_Fitzgerald that neither party are really to blame.

Koeman, unlike you, didn't have an agenda, other than to improve Everton as a team.

Part of that was improving Ross, and he did it by making sure every player knew their place.

Ross was dropped - once - for poor form. It wasn't even 'dropping', it was been taken off at half-time after he played awfully.

He started the next game.

He was made captain two weeks previous.

Barkley will only leave if he doesn't sign the deal that's on offer. It'll be a shame, but not the end of the world. I hope he stays.

 

[davek]

Because to assume there isn't is thoroughly irrational, and I would think a man with such academic prowess as yourself would be able to appreciate that

This is why you get WUM accusations Dave

So much of what you say on here is just so extreme and irrational that people automatically assume you're just saying it for effect. I don't doubt that sometimes you are thoroughly sincere, but I can't escape the numerous times where it appears you're just poking bears

One person has the power and the other is in the position where they respond. That's why it's black and white. The dynamic here is cut and dried.

There is no irrationality to that. Quite the opposite. You'd have to be irrational not to understand that.

 

[BlueToff]

It's "worked". That's why he's half way down the road to Spurs.

It's helped make him a better player after he stagnated for two years.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

You're a weird one Dave.

No, he didn't. And no, I am in no way saying Koeman is 'innocent' or Ross is 'guilty'.

My point is, the one thing that Ross should have really done is clarify with the club whether he was signing before the end of the season.

That's it. Other than that, I'm with @Mikey_Fitzgerald that neither party are really to blame.

Koeman, unlike you, didn't have an agenda, other than to improve Everton as a team.

Part of that was improving Ross, and he did it by making sure every player knew their place.

Ross was dropped - once - for poor form. It wasn't even 'dropping', it was been taken off at half-time after he played awfully.

He started the next game.

He was made captain two weeks previous.

Barkley will only leave if he doesn't sign the deal that's on offer. It'll be a shame, but not the end of the world. I hope he stays.

Mikey and BlueToff, "Team Rationality"

 

[davek]

You're a weird one Dave.

No, he didn't. And no, I am in no way saying Koeman is 'innocent' or Ross is 'guilty'.
My point is, the one thing that Ross should have really done is clarify with the club whether he was signing before the end of the season.
That's it. Other than that, I'm with @Mikey_Fitzgerald that neither party are really to blame.
Koeman, unlike you, didn't have an agenda, other than to improve Everton as a team.

Part of that was improving Ross, and he did it by making sure every player knew their place.

Ross was dropped - once - for poor form. It wasn't even 'dropping', it was been taken off at half-time after he played awfully.

He started the next game.

He was made captain two weeks previous.

Barkley will only leave if he doesn't sign the deal that's on offer. It'll be a shame, but not the end of the world. I hope he stays.

You are talking about one of the most political managers in the PL. He has an agenda, dont you worry about that.

 

[Thomasc]

Barkley is a very good player who we'll miss if he goes

We'll survive without him of course, as we always do when we lose a brilliant player like him, but I can't see how anyone can't find this a very sad situation

What I'm not interested in though is accruing blame, because I don't think there deserves to be any

Koeman has a rational stance and so does Ross

At the end of the day, if Ross thinks another manager will do better with his career then that's fair enough

Again, I 100% believe this has nothing to do with money, because otherwise Ross would have signed that record breaking contract

He won't get more at another club money wise, but he might get a manager who he feels is better suited to him as a player and man

Point to me the man or woman who says they've never considered leaving their place of employment because of a clash with their manager and I'll point to you a liar

I agree with everything you say, my main point being though all along is that he is very easily replaced.

He is far from one of the "brilliant" players that you refer to, but he is very decent, though stats show only against sides we are expected to beat.

It is pointless as you say trying to apportion blame to anybody in this, players come and go, if he goes so be it.

I am all for debate, but some people are just so extreme in their views of the manager that they refuse to even consider the middle ground here.

 

[davek]

It's helped make him a better player after he stagnated for two years.

I just saw a player doing what he always did. The 'improvement' stuff was either a bollocks claim or just referred to RB passing a few short balls and laying off a little more than he used to. No dramatic shift in his game whatsoever. That was all talk.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Again, you're putting it all on Koeman there, which isn't right

Barkley hasn't taken to Koeman either it would seem, and despite this Koeman has still sanctioned a big contract offer for Ross

This is a two way street, and I'm sticking firm to the belief that neither are to blame for it

Sometimes personalities don't gel and people choose to work elsewhere. It happens in every line of work, even football

The only blame I'll send Koeman's way is that he gave that stupid public ultimatum, but then again you can chalk that down to frustration at Ross stringing the club along

You need to appreciate the grey Dave, not everything is black and white

I think Ross went and had a word with Ron seeking assurances that he wouldn't strengthen in his area, Koeman of course couldn't do that and we end up with a situation like this.

Should he had lied to Ross and said you are my number 1 number 10? I'm not sure, that's just kicking the can down the road for another problem later on when you do bring in another player.

At the end of the day if Ross doesn't want to stay and fight for his place then he has to go. You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't apply yourself all the time then people will question whether he is right for them. Seems like he wants the easy life and the lack of bids is deafening, you would think one of Arsenal/Spurs/City or Utd would put in a cheeky bid just to ensure he doesn't re-sign with us.

 

[AndyC]

I just saw a player doing what he always did. The 'improvement' stuff was either a bollocks claim or just referred to RB passing a few short balls and laying off a little more than he used to. No dramatic shift in his game whatsoever. That was all talk.

Language David.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

One person has the power and the other is in the position where they respond. That's why it's black and white. The dynamic here is cut and dried.

There is no irrationality to that. Quite the opposite. You'd have to be irrational not to understand that.

And the "person in power" has given the "responder" a bumper contract to sign, so the outcome is now thoroughly in the hands of Barkley

If Koeman had offered Ross a rubbish deal or no deal at all, then maybe the situation would be more cut and dry, but he hasn't

To quote Dana White, Ross has been offered "an ass load of money", and currently he's turned that down and is potentially looking to move away for LESS money. The rational reasoning is that Ross would rather work with someone else, which is fair enough. However, Koeman has done right by him here with this money offer and he's played him many times throughout the season and Ross has been professional in all his personal dealings with the club, outside of letting this drag on by not giving an answer

There's no hero or villain here, just two different people who don't appear to be gelling in a manager/player relationship. This has happened at every club since the dawn of time. It happened in fact with Kev and Martinez as well. Sometimes personalities don't mesh, and when you have to see someone basically every day for 11 months of the year, that's going to play a role in whether you want to retain your position of employment. However, that doesn't make anyone involved a bad person or qualified for any blame of vilification

THAT's a rational response to this

 

[Pseudonym]

You are talking about one of the most political managers in the PL. He has an agenda, dont you worry about that.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Anyway, I feel like I'm swimming through treacle in this thread at the moment, so I'll take my leave for a while

We're better than this Blues, we truly are

 

[nsno-chris]

I just saw a player doing what he always did. The 'improvement' stuff was either a bollocks claim or just referred to RB passing a few short balls and laying off a little more than he used to. No dramatic shift in his game whatsoever. That was all talk.

Lol

 

[BlueToff]

Mikey and BlueToff, "Team Rationality"

I do try.

I like Koeman. He's the best manager for us at this time, even though I don't agree with a fair few of his decisions.

But his handling of Ross isn't one of them.

I like Ross, and want him to be a key player for us. I think he has the ability. But only if he wants to be here.

 

[BlueToff]

I just saw a player doing what he always did. The 'improvement' stuff was either a bollocks claim or just referred to RB passing a few short balls and laying off a little more than he used to. No dramatic shift in his game whatsoever. That was all talk.

He's a more rounded player now, IMO.

I think we've seen a better Ross barkley in 2017 than we have since his breakthrough season.