Ross Barkley

[Simon baker]

Ok mate.

I'm not even gonna entertain your post if that's the case then.

For what it's worth, Dele Alli is better than Barkley, IMO...

He has played as a striker all season Sky Monday night football unequivocally proved it with in depth analysis of his heat maps this season & back it up with touch maps. Or have you watched him every week the question remains name a better English midfielder

 

[kenada_blue]

Barkley as nothing in common with Eriksen, I don't believe. Eriksen is a classy little operator that as a footballing brain, doesn't dwell on the ball or take unnecessary amounts of touches, doesn't ball hog and wait to be closed down before recycling the ball. He's also great at getting into good areas between the lines to effect games, Barkley for me lacks a lot of that.

I'm not saying Barkley is [Poor language removed] but I don't think he's going to be great either.

As for Alli, he's another that gets into good positions, he links with the frontman whoever it may be and he wants to go beyond the striker and get in the box and score goals, Barkley doesn't do those things enough I don't think.

So, Eriksen is Spurs creative midfielder but Barkley isn't our creative midfielder?

I'm not comparing the talent (Erkisen is clearly ahead) and I agree with certain aspects of Barkley's play (which is mainly down to lack of runners around him IMO especially today).

As for Alli...yes agreed on all points. But that's what a support striker does hence with Alli's 14 goals and only 3 assists. Barkley isn't that with his 4 goals and 7 assists.

 

[nsno-chris]

The thing is, whilst you are correct, he was terrible today and the thing is, really great players rise to the occasion and he tends not to. Still beliieve in him tho

I think the entire team was, but to much focus goes into Ross. We have a centre forward who keeps telling everyone how he wants to play at the highest level, he didn't even do a tenth of what Barkley did today

It was a poor performance, and something affected his game today. Let's see how does against united, I'm confident he'll be back

 

[MasonLeeEFC]

Barkley is our main creative outlet. Has been for 3 seasons. He's been our chief midfielder and creative spark.

Dele Alli isn't Spurs creative heart. What he is, is a very good support striker playing off a main striker. You'll never see him dictate play, pick a 20 yard pass out, split a defence. What you'll get is someone who won't come back into his own half and punish teams in and around the box.

And that's what Koeman wants out of Barkley, to be high up the pitch and offer a more creative and goal scoring threat, and at times he has done but it's his general play for me that I don't like. It's like Souness says, he runs with ball or takes way too many touches when he should just play the ball, keep it ticking over and move into space to take the next pass. And that's not just today, he does it a lot. And vs weaker teams he can get away with doing that but vs better opposition he comes a cropper and gets forced into mistakes.

You don't see Alli coming back into his own half and playing risky balls across his own box or trying to take men on on the edge of his own box and risk losing the ball in dangerous areas like Barkley does a lot.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

I think the entire team was, but to much focus goes into Ross. We have a centre forward who keeps telling everyone how he wants to play at the highest level, he didn't even do a tenth of what Barkley did today

It was a poor performance, and something affected his game today. Let's see how does against united, I'm confident he'll be back

Said it earlier mate, the RS did a number on him, got stuck into him, didn't allow him any space or time on the ball, they knew he would get frustrated and he fell for it. He's got got to learn to curb that frustration and keep his cool because it drastically effects his game.

 

[Simon baker]

Said it earlier mate, the RS did a number on him, got stuck into him, didn't allow him any space or time on the ball, they knew he would get frustrated and he fell for it. He's got got to learn to curb that frustration and keep his cool because it drastically effects his game.

It easy for them though as they didn't have to worry to much about anyone else.
Benitez apparently used to say to them just mark arteta & we will beat them.

His first poor game of 2017 let's not forget he played very well away to spurs

 

[MasonLeeEFC]

So, Eriksen is Spurs creative midfielder but Barkley isn't our creative midfielder?

I'm not comparing the talent (Erkisen is clearly ahead) and I agree with certain aspects of Barkley's play (which is mainly down to lack of runners around him IMO especially today).

As for Alli...yes agreed on all points. But that's what a support striker does hence with Alli's 14 goals and only 3 assists. Barkley isn't that with his 4 goals and 7 assists.

Are we not comparing abilities? I thought that's what you was getting at. Of course he's been our creative force, as the stats show but I was talking about the way the players we've mentioned play in style. But Barkley of late as been used as a right sided forward, so is he not meant to be a support striker of sorts and get close to Rom and link with him? Cos recently that is what Koeman said he wants from Ross, to be high up the pitch and play close to Rom and influence things in the final third?!

But I do agree our team lacks movement badly, our players in the final third are too static and don't give enough of an option to the man on the ball.

So going ahead from here, where would you start to use Barkley? Do we keep persevering with him a s a wide forward or do we use him as the attacking CM in a midfield 3?!

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

It easy for them though as they didn't have to worry to much about anyone else.
Benitez apparently used to say to them just mark arteta & we will beat them.

His first poor game of 2017 let's not forget he played very well away to spurs

Yeah, I wasn't having a pop at him mate because the lad is class. Just noticeable that when he gets frustrated in games he lets it get to him, he then gets rash and sloppy, he could/should have been sent off today for his tackle on Lovren, also looked back at the replays of his challenge on Can, that was nasty as well.

 

[MasonLeeEFC]

He has played as a striker all season Sky Monday night football unequivocally proved it with in depth analysis of his heat maps this season & back it up with touch maps. Or have you watched him every week the question remains name a better English midfielder

Second striker, AM, what's the difference? Spurs play 4-2-3-1 and he's part of that attacking mid 3 so yeah, he's a midfielder. Just cos he's been told to play as the highest of the 3 midfielders and be more of an attacking threat doesn't mean he's not a midfielder.

Alli plays in behind the striker but as a license to go get in the box and add a goal threat. Barkley as played in that position for a number of seasons but doesn't do the things Alli does. So cos he doesn't, him and Alli aren't midfielders, or one is and the other is a second striker?!

 

[kenada_blue]

And that's what Koeman wants out of Barkley, to be high up the pitch and offer a more creative and goal scoring threat, and at times he has done but it's his general play for me that I don't like. It's like Souness says, he runs with ball or takes way too many touches when he should just play the ball, keep it ticking over and move into space to take the next pass. And that's not just today, he does it a lot. And vs weaker teams he can get away with doing that but vs better opposition he comes a cropper and gets forced into mistakes.

You don't see Alli coming back into his own half and playing risky balls across his own box or trying to take men on on the edge of his own box and risk losing the ball in dangerous areas like Barkley does a lot.

Souness, like most pundits, just basis their judgements on seeing players on the tele twice and look at the stats. Barkley has had more good games than bad this season, when he has a bad one he gets the "he's stupid, he does this wrong, he loses the ball etc". Which is fine. Its his thing.

The same 'thing' with Ozil and Coutinho hiding in big games. De Bruyne not having the right "winning" mentality. These are labels that for the most part can be argued.

As for Alli...of course you don't see him lose the ball in his own half..he's never in his own half.

Barkley had a heads gone game today.

BUT in being comparable to English midfielders in the premiership...he's head and shoulders above all of them despite being someone who doesn't "kick on"

 

[kenada_blue]

Second striker, AM, what's the difference? Spurs play 4-2-3-1 and he's part of that attacking mid 3 so yeah, he's a midfielder. Just cos he's been told to play as the highest of the 3 midfielders and be more of an attacking threat doesn't mean he's not a midfielder.

Alli plays in behind the striker but as a license to go get in the box and add a goal threat. Barkley as played in that position for a number of seasons but doesn't do the things Alli does. So cos he doesn't, him and Alli aren't midfielders, or one is and the other is a second striker?!

Again, Barkley is the SOLE creative midfielder we have. Hence he doesn't have the freedom Alli has to concentrate on one aspect of the game.

Alli has Eriksen, Dier, Wanyama, Dembele surrounding him to just get on the end of something in the box.

Barkley has Gana, Davies, Barry, Schniderlain.

For us, you'd be more inclined to compare Mirallas to Alli in what he does for the side.

 

[Chunky Frankfurter]

Barkley younger than all them by a couple of years and playing in a worse team. Barkley had a good few months. Wasn't great early on

Last season Barkley got 25 assists and goals combined in all comps. Playing for a team that finished 11th. Pretty sure that was more than Eriksen & coutinho. Not sure about de bruyne

So you would not swap Barkley for Coutinho or Eriksen?

Coutinho last season shone in big games. Man U in Europa League, Dortmund in same competition, assist in the final. He was aged 23 (as Barkley is now) doing all this. He is also always major torn fproblem for Man City.

Gylfi Sigurdsson has 20 goals and assist this season for relegation battling Swansea, you think he is good as Coutinho or Eriksen?

Alli is just 20 and is where we all thought Barkley would be.

 

[MasonLeeEFC]

Again, Barkley is the SOLE creative midfielder we have. Hence he doesn't have the freedom Alli has to concentrate on one aspect of the game.

Alli has Eriksen, Dier, Wanyama, Dembele surrounding him to just get on the end of something in the box.

Barkley has Gana, Davies, Barry, Schniderlain.

For us, you'd be more inclined to compare Mirallas to Alli in what he does for the side.

Wouldn't say Barkley is our sole creative outlet. Davies since coming into the team as assisted goals, created things or been heavily involved in goals/chances.

 

[Simon baker]

Second striker, AM, what's the difference? Spurs play 4-2-3-1 and he's part of that attacking mid 3 so yeah, he's a midfielder. Just cos he's been told to play as the highest of the 3 midfielders and be more of an attacking threat doesn't mean he's not a midfielder.

Alli plays in behind the striker but as a license to go get in the box and add a goal threat. Barkley as played in that position for a number of seasons but doesn't do the things Alli does. So cos he doesn't, him and Alli aren't midfielders, or one is and the other is a second striker?!

You clearly lack understanding that's fine him & Barkley play in very different positions

 

[kenada_blue]

Are we not comparing abilities? I thought that's what you was getting at. Of course he's been our creative force, as the stats show but I was talking about the way the players we've mentioned play in style. But Barkley of late as been used as a right sided forward, so is he not meant to be a support striker of sorts and get close to Rom and link with him? Cos recently that is what Koeman said he wants from Ross, to be high up the pitch and play close to Rom and influence things in the final third?!

But I do agree our team lacks movement badly, our players in the final third are too static and don't give enough of an option to the man on the ball.

So going ahead from here, where would you start to use Barkley? Do we keep persevering with him a s a wide forward or do we use him as the attacking CM in a midfield 3?!

For the most part Barkley plays in front of our midfield 3. They win the ball, he links play, makes something happen creatively.

Today it was DCL off the striker (he is a forward). For the most part its Mirallas, Valencia, Lennon, Bolasie etc. Ends being more of a 4-3-1-2.

When we go very defensively ie playing 4 defensive minded midfielders (Davies, Barry, Gana, Schniderlain) Barkley plays closer to Rom...but it doesn't work as there needs to be another creative attack minded player helping out breaking the lines (hence not getting results against Spurs etc).

Since the start of the season, to me its not been Barkley being the problem, its who we have around him. We fixed a part by having Davies break in. Solidified by Schnierlain. But another attacking threat is needed - like a Dele Alli - or a clever intelligent player (like a Mata or Siggurdson) allowing more freedom for players.