Ronald Koeman discussion

[kithnou]

Yeah thought you might say those two. I wanted Mourinho too, but obviously he had his sights set a little higher. I would've been happy with Pellegrini too.

Having said all that, I'm also very happy with Koeman. His ceiling is so high in my opinion and I'm old enough to remember his playing days; and what a player he was.

I just worry about people putting too much emphasis on PL experience; lest we forget that the top ten PL managers of all time in terms of experience (ie number of games managed) reads as follows:

1. Alex Ferguson
2. Arsene Wenger
3. Harry Redknapp
4. David Moyes
5. Sam Allardyce
6. Steve Bruce
7. Mark Hughes
8. Martin O'Neill
9. Alan Curbishley
10. Graeme Souness

Save for Wenger (and obviously Ferguson but he's retired) I'd take Koeman in a heartbeat over any of those.

Some fine British dross in that list.

 

[Carl J]

Some fine British dross in that list.

Apart from Ferguson and Wenger I'd let you be manager rather than the rest of that lot @Sona

 

[Blue Cheese]

wheres the signings Ron, Bah far too slow this guy, koeman OUT!!

 

[DanB90]

Almost, Ronald's first words to me were: ''6million?! Where do I sign?''

 

[Caolam]

Could you see pelle coming to Everton mate.

It would depend on his relationship with Koeman, which find't look that great towards the end of the season to be honest. He would appear to be the perfect target man for Koeman's system of play, he can hold the ball up and he is strong in the air.
Everton would be a step up for him and potentially a big step up.
A lot is riding on his performances in the Euros.

 

[Jags..class]

It would depend on his relationship with Koeman, which find't look that great towards the end of the season to be honest. He would appear to be the perfect target man for Koeman's system of play, he can hold the ball up and he is strong in the air.
Everton would be a step up for him and potentially a big step up.
A lot is riding on his performances in the Euros.

Read before that he mentioned Koeman in an interview after the italy game thanking Koeman for helping him become a better player.

 

[Fletch]

Laughing this morning at Chicozaul being banned on the Southampton forum, for just telling it like it is.

 

[McMagic]

I don't know if it's age or what, but the last couple of seasons I have felt so let down by our performances, surely it can't all be down to
Martinez (Who I believed and do believe to be a thoroughly good and honest man) which I think unusual for present day managers.
I don't really understand the Director of football roll, other than to liaise with a players agent, I would have thought a Chairmans position
would be to sort out contracts etc. I am looking forward to this season, with Moshiri & Koeman up front, but would like to hear Moshiri
speak of our club. COYB and give us summat to shart abart.

 

[MercuryBlue88]

Bored of this now, we seemed to know the outcome a month ago... lets move on and sign some boss players now

 

[Philw]

Taken from reddit.

At the end of the season, Koeman verbally agreed to a new contract with Saints, even down to such details as what players would be leaving [Wanyama (most likely to Spurs), Pelle (most likely to Lazio), Juanmi (to Sociadad, already done) lol, I didn't even know he had gone! and Mane (most likely to Man. Utd)] -- as well as discussing our transfer targets into the Club. This was all verbally agreed upon, leaving the finer details of Ron's actual contract itself to be sorted by his agent and settled when he returned from [his first] holiday.

Whilst he was away however, Everton approached Ronald's [now former] Agent, Guido Albers, to sound him out on Ronald's interest in taking up the Everton Job. His agent, taking Ronald at his word - "I like to honour my contract, I like to shtay at Saints" - [bear in mind that the agent had been involved in negotiating Ronald's new Saints contract, and therefore believed that he wished to stay] flatly turned down the Everton approach on behalf of Ronald, and instead put forward the name of another of his clients, Frank De Boer, who was indeed interested in the Everton job. [Two agent pay-days for the price of one!] lou_wink2

Everton, having already been turned down by their first choice, Unai Emery from Sevilla [who is off to PSG] were determined to get their second choice [Ronald Koeman] -- and so used Dutch agent Rob Jansen to approach Ronald with an "offer he could not refuse" -- i.e. £6-7 mill a year, and £100m transfer kitty to splash. Ronald was furious that his own agent [Albers] had refused the offer without even speaking to him first, and sacked him, taking on Rob Jansen in his place. And here is where things get interesting.

Koeman was not entirely dishonest -- as he wasn't really that interested in the Everton job. Who would be, when you've just got your team into European football for the second year running, already enjoy substantial backing from your board, the adoration of your loyal fan-base -- and Everton are nowhere? But what Koeman wanted to do, was to use this interest and concrete offer as a bargaining tool when he returned from his holiday, to say to the Saints Board "this is the kind of 'ambition' I am talking about". He wanted to "use" the Everton interest to get himself more spending money with Saints -- but he grossly overestimated his own "value" to the Saints Board.

For quite a while now -- Saints have not been entirely happy with Koeman. Many of the agreements he had previously made when he first signed, he had not been honouring. The style of football, formation, and most importantly -- the much vaunted "pathway" to the First Team from our famed Academy -- which under Ronald has been said inside the Club to have become "blocked". His attitude toward our young players, never bothering to involve himself with the Academy or even watch their games [he sees himself very much as a "First Team Manager only" whereas we want our manager to take a keen interest in helping develop our burgeoning talent], often discouraging them, blankly stating that most of them are simply not good enough, and at one point launching into a very nasty tirade of abuse to young Matty Targett, that is said to have stunned those who were there in its cutting spitefulness and completely unnecessary severity. The "esteemed" Ronald Koeman callously tore a sensitive young lad to shreds in front of all his mates, and has since been widely regarded as a complete [Poor language removed].

Ronald Koeman, despite his very well presented and controlled public image in the media, is not particularly well liked by many at the Club, to make a sweeping understatement. His aloofness and arrogance on the training ground, his unapproachability, and tendency to snap at players and speak to them in a disrespectful tone has not gone down well. Mane, JWP, Harry Reed, and Tadic in particular have an immense dislike of Ronald Koeman, and others only tolerate his tactless approach as they're regularly in the Team, were enjoying an element of success under him, and don't want to rock the boat. But you get the general idea.

We are also greatly peturbed at some of Ronald's training methods, i.e the lack and short duration of them, the low intensity, and lack of commitment to training in general. He gives the players a lot of time off, and is prone to "disappearing on golfing breaks" when we feel that he should be spending his time coaching our players! The Board have been questioning a lot about his management style and not honouring his commitments to playing "The Southampton Way" and his stifling of the pathway for our young players for a while now -- but whilst he has been enjoying success and has the firm backing of the fans, they have been loathe to take any firm course of action.

Ronald got very lucky during our disasterous run of form over the Christmas period, where we lost seven out of nine games, and we were persisting in that horrendous hoofball style of football, lumping long balls up to a woefully out of form [yet constantly picked anyway] Pelle, and privately among the Board, questions were being asked by some, of whether to get rid of Koeman then. But as I say, he got lucky: Pelle got injured, and Ronald was forced to play the excellent Shane Long [who he previously never game a proper chance to show his qualities], and change back to a style of play more suited to our philosophy. Shlong pretty much saved Koeman's job at that time.

So that's the background. Ron thought his "gravitas" in the game deserved a certain respect, and coupled with the success he has brought us -- he badly misjudged his importance to our Board. He thought he could use the Everton interest, believing his value and position at the Club to be unassailable -- to effectively blackmail the Board into agreeing completely to his own terms to sign a new deal. It wasn't so much about the personal money on offer, but more with getting more to spend on new players than was on offer -- and forcing Sadio Mane to stay again against his will. Sadio hates Koeman [the phrase used (by Sadio) was "[Poor language removed] arrogant asshat"], and the irony is, we now have a higher likelihood of keeping him [Mane], without Koeman around. Not to say that will definitely happen, just that it might.

Koeman gave us an ultimatum, that we could either make him an offer much closer to what Everton were offering -- or he would simply not sign the new deal, and see out the last year of his contract as promised. This effectively massively backfired on him, as our Board were really not that fussed. We have other excellent candidates on our shortlist who we feel would stick much more closely to our Club philosophies, and therefore be a better fit with the Club -- and as stated -- many players who'd be happy to see the back of him. So the Saints Board effectively called his bluff, and said sorry Ron -- either you sign the deal you've already verbally agreed to -- or you can take the Everton job and we'll get in someone who will do things the way we want, according to our Club philosophy. What we won't have, is a "lame duck" manager seeing out the last year of his contract, when what we want, is for someone committed to our new Five-Year Plan and hungry to build on what we've already achieved. Ronald simply wasn't showing the kind of commitment we were looking for, so we gave him the choice to either do so, or [Poor language removed] off to Everton. Lol.

We gave him two weeks to decide what to do; sign the new contract, or go [Poor language removed] himself. Ron stormed off in a huff on holiday number two after this, and we shall await the final outcome. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that he yet may end up staying, so don't burn any effigies just yet -- although to be honest -- I suspect that bridge has now been burnt sufficiently from both ends to be unlikely in the extreme. Though, stranger things have happened -- like Ronald Koeman being interested in a club like Everton for example, lol. lou_wink2 And this is why the whole sorry saga has been playing out now for so long. Ronald doesn't really want the Everton job -- but his own duplicitous conduct has ended up forcing him down a path he was entirely not expecting! He badly misjudged the situation and his own worth to the Club -- and thought that we would bend to his will, to keep such an esteemed figure at the Club at all costs. And now -- if he doesn't take the Everton job -- he looks like a complete [Poor language removed], as he [almost certainly] won't be staying at Saints. Well, he looks like a complete [Poor language removed] either way now, whatever he does, lol.

He's completely blown the reputation he carefully established for integrity, decency, and being a man of honour and respect.

Another thing, is that we will not budge on the finer details of his compensation package with Everton. Some of which (including guarantees that they will not make offers for any Southampton players once Koeman arrives) are proving to be a real sticking point, as is the contract on offer to his brother Erwin, and the fact that both Erwin and particularly Jan Kluitenberg (our fitness coach) are pissed off at Ronald, as they both love being at Saints, and didn't want to leave. Erwin, ultimately, will be loyal to Ron -- but Jan (and his family) really love living in the area, have settled really well here and don't particularly want to leave. (He may yet even end up staying). If Everton do not agree to absolutely everything that Saints want -- we are quite happy to deny Everton permission to take our under contract manager, and essentially "hang him out to dry" for a year whilst his contract runs down, and we'll get on and appoint someone who does want to commit to us fully.

Just read this. Lol

 

[chrismpw]

I don't know if it's age or what, but the last couple of seasons I have felt so let down by our performances, surely it can't all be down to
Martinez (Who I believed and do believe to be a thoroughly good and honest man) which I think unusual for present day managers.
I don't really understand the Director of football roll, other than to liaise with a players agent, I would have thought a Chairmans position
would be to sort out contracts etc. I am looking forward to this season, with Moshiri & Koeman up front, but would like to hear Moshiri
speak of our club. COYB and give us summat to shart abart.

No, no, no! Chairmen don't DO anything, chairmen never DO and actual WORK - they're top of the tree .... they network .... aka sit around drinking coffee/whisky and chat and they pop up as a public figure when things are going well to take the plaudits - they're simply wealthy men.
The DoF does the looking around to find & negotiate suitable footballers, the Coach melds those sourced into a team, without being distracted by the legalities and bargaining.

 

[yelyah]

We have other excellent candidates on our shortlist who we feel would stick much more closely to our Club philosophies, and therefore be a better fit with the Club

#WelcomeEddieHowe

 

[brieverton]

It's the old Dutch league conundrum, and I have not seen much of Milik, but I was impressed with his contribution and goal against Northern Ireland on Sunday, albeit against against limited opposition, no disrespect to them.

He seems tall and strong, but mobile, good on the ball, held it up, and linked play very well. Took his chance when it arrived. Just might have the attributes to succeed here if the price was right.

 

[BlueIsTheColour]

from the Mail...apologies if its been posted already but is a good read..........sounds like Niasse is determined to prove his doubters wrong...and we passed up the chance to sign Payet, I knew we were interested but to pass him up is bordering on criminal considering we bought Niasse for the same money a few months later!


FIVE THINGS KOEMAN MUST TACKLE AT GOODISON PARK
DOMINIC KING

TRANSFORM THE ATMOSPHERE


A change of manager always provides a lift but Koeman will be aware of how much work needs to be done to get the bounce back at Finch Farm. It is not wrong to say that, during the last two months of the campaign just gone, the mood around the club was appalling.

Even the most level-headed players had lost faith in Martinez's project and it made what has traditionally been a lively, vibrant place of work become a centre of disenchantment. For that reason alone, Everton's hierarchy had to take action.

One of Everton's strengths over the last decade has been the unity within. David Moyes assembled a squad that worked relentlessly for one another and never got carried away and Bill Kenwright, the chairman, has always endeavoured to ensure that everyone adheres to tradition.

Moshiri's wealth means times are changing but if Koeman is smart, he will realise where Everton's strengths have been and tap in to the wealth of experience around him. Everton are never better than when they are united and the fracturing of last season must be repaired.

RESOLVE THE TWO BIG TRANSFER PUZZLES

Manchester City want John Stones and are privately confident they will land the England defender. Romelu Lukaku, meanwhile, has been batting his eyes at a host of admirers and wants to play well at the European Championship to showcase his talents.

Koeman, of course, would want Stones and Lukaku to be part of his revolution but, equally, he will be aware of their value. Moyes once said that 'Everton do not sell cheap' and that mantra remains. If those players leave this summer, it won't be for less than a combined £100million.

What cannot happen, though, is for their respective futures to drag on and on into August towards deadline day. Transfers sagas are not healthy for anyone and Koeman needs to be given an early indication of their intentions.

If they are committed to Everton, all well and good. If, however, they want to leave and that cannot be changed, Everton need to get the best possible price to allow Koeman to start planning. If they do go, it won't faze him. Look at the work he did with Southampton after their mass exodus in 2014.

REBUILD THE LOCAL HERO

Ross Barkley played in every Premier League game last season but he suffered terribly towards the end, failing to make the impact his talent should allow. He failed to score in any match after February 20 and his last Premier League goals were on February 3.

So noticeable was his dip, Barkley was privately sweating on his place for Euro 2016. He would have been crushed had he lost his seat on the plane to France and it should not be underestimated how much this 22-year-old pours over his performances and frets about his form.

Martinez gave Barkley a huge build-up when he arrived and frequently compared him to some of football's royalty. There was a point, in November 2013, when he mentioned him in the same sentence as the club's new manager.

'The way he can strike the ball from outside the box is of the highest level,' said Martinez. 'He's got the switch of play of Ronald Koeman, if you want. So I think you can find many, many outstanding attributes like some of the top players.'

Barkley has tremendous ability but he is reaching a point in his career where he can no longer be described as having potential. He has the technical qualities to thrive under Koeman and Barkley must listen to the words his new manager imparts.

SPEND WISELY

Kenwright has unfailingly backed his managers and in the past decade Everton have smashed their transfer record five times. Even in January, Martinez was given £13.5million to sign Oumar Niasse, who has spent time recently doing double sessions at Finch Farm to get a head start after an underwhelming start.

But what Everton have not been able to do, though, is spend big with great frequency. Finance was one of the reasons they passed on the chance to sign Dimitri Payet 12 months ago but, with Moshiri committed to bankrolling significant investment, that will no longer happen.

Koeman will have access to the biggest transfer kitty in Everton's history but that doesn't mean he should spend for the sake of it. Everton need reinforcements in several areas, such as a new goalkeeper, in defence and up front, and Koeman needs to be shrewd.

MAKE GOODISON ROCK AGAIN

When Lukaku scored his second goal against Chelsea in the FA Cup quarter-final in March, the noise inside Goodison was remarkable, an ear-splitting, senses fuddling din. When the old stadium is like that, there aren't many better places to see football in the country.

But when it is quiet? It is inhospitable and the tension is palpable. Towards the end under Martinez, as results failed to improve, it became intolerable. Koeman bore witness to how bad it was when Southampton drew 1-1 on April 16.

Evertonians had become bored by the methodical way Martinez wanted his side to play and Koeman needs to appreciate that while the home crowd want to see attractive football, they want it to have a tempo that unsettles the opposition and creates an energy in the stands.

Koeman is not walking into a club that is on its knees and requires major surgery just to stabilise. He is taking over one of the best institutions in the land with history and solid foundations. Providing he makes the right moves, he has the chance to make them a force once more.

 

[everton2004]

Urgh....those grapes, they're so sour! lol

http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/southampton/news/43065/?