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Roberto Martinez discussion

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He failed to get top half in his second season with us after finishing 5th in his first, we now currently sit 12th, surely we should be improving on 5th not getting worse or have I got it the wrong way round?
No mate, we cant go for 5th - we haven't got Moyes' magic beans to throw in the ground now and provide us with a defence.

ROFL.
 
Love how the locusts are out, post 1,000 messages at @davek and after each one either mock him or say different variations of "game over", "end of" etc.

No matter how many different ways you paint it, there is a view shared by many that we are indeed progressing thanks to this manager.
 

Wigan and an FA cup win is like us winning the CL. That's the enormity of it.
You do appreciate the need for defensive organisation in order to stop leaking goals though?

My point being, whose responsibility is that? If we assume it's largely Martinez's, at what point do we say 'that's enough goals given away'?

He has the quality players, he has the 20+ goals striker, he even has a top notch defence. We should be higher than 12th - serious question: at what point will you say enough is enough?
 

15 goals conceded in the 15 games since the New Year. One per game. A disastrous defensive performance overall, or really pretty decent all told?

Doesn't look to me like the picture of defensive catastrophe you're trying to paint.

we have played 14 games since the new year dave, thats twice now you have altered the stats to make your argument slightly more favourable.

12 games 8 goals - in relaity 12 games 11 goals
15 games 15 goals - in reality 14 games 15 goals

other stats only 9 of them games where league games, we got 12 points from those games, 5 of those games in the league where at home, we won 1 drew 1 and lost 3 of those. so 4 points out of 5 games. 3 of those games we had clean sheets in happened to be the FA Cup games against teams who played their second 11 against us.

We have thrown away a 2 goal lead against west ham to lose 3-2, a 2-0 lead against chelsea to draw 3-3 and a 3-1 aggrgate lead against city to lose 4-3 and go out the cup during that period, but keep on fiddling nero
 
Since when is conceding one a game cause for celebration? Especially when you factor in two pub teams and Bournemouth reserves? Take them out and the defensive record is still pretty poor. Depends of course what your standards are, I'm sure it's perfectly acceptable for you.
I'm not celebrating it, I'm putting it into context. A disastrous defence that cant defend?

Saturday's fiasco aside, hardly a topical criticism.
 
Well, we can all play the 'last seven seasons' for this and 'last three seasons' for that game and make a point of sorts. Fundamentally we are a middling PL club - nowhere near the elite, but nowhere near relegation fodder. Right slap bang in the middle on a sliding scal that goes from 6th or 7th to 10th/11th.

We have a reasonable but average type of spend and we tread water for the most part. I mean, if that isn't true, why is there excitement about the Moshiri deal taking us to the next level?



You see, this is why I cant take these attacks on Martinez seriously. Even a season that saw him smash through our PL points total record by 7 clear points you find room to attempt to belittle it. It's just nonsensical as an argument to try and unpick that season and say it fell short - Martinez squeezed that season dry and got a total that in many other seasons was a CL spot nailed on.

Maybe you wont see it as an achievement, but more level heads unaffected by forum fever will.



More style than substance. The feller's built a PL club from ashes and put the most prestigious domestic cup in world football in a trophy cabinet belonging to a gang of pie eaters. Maybe that's not substantial enough and we should have one of the new flavours in who had half a good PL season or managed a team in the white heat of the Eridivise or Ligue 1.

In one breath you criticise looking at previous seasons and then harp back to RM's first season a wee bit hypocritical there.

You say we are a middle table club but previously even you have said with our squad we should be a lot higher,which is it Dave and why cannot RM get this arguably our best squad since the 80's playing better.

In your last para you go back to his Wigan days FFS that is history but if you want to look back forget the FA trophy and look at their league performances currently our's seems pretty similar.
 
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And the 10 years prior to that all had us finishing in around 17th David.

Yeah let's ignore that Moyes effectively inherited a group of pub players and Rooney (who was then sold). He saved us from relegation in his first 9 games, took us to 7th in his first full season. Ok yes had a horrendous second season but at the time no one was even surprised given the state of the squad, we were never in any relegation trouble either. Then he took that motley crew to fourth (probably the greatest prem achievement up until Ranieri will surpass it this season). After that we levelled out as regular challengers for European qualification and he got us back to the latter stages of the FA cup again.

But yeah let's compare his 03/04 with Martinez's 14/15 because they're exactly the same aren't they. It's not as if one had a deep squad full of international talent and a 30 mill striker and the other had a relegation battled squad and zero money.
 

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