Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

Oh so it's only the second lowest in twelve years.

That's alright then.

Second lowest in that context is like saying that Moshiri is the second richest shareholder/director Everton have ever had. The chasm is enormous.

 

[davek]

And the 10 years prior to that all had us finishing in around 17th David.

...and Moyes carried the rich tradition on.

Well in ginger minge.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I'm not celebrating it, I'm putting it into context. A disastrous defence that cant defend?

Saturday's fiasco aside, hardly a topical criticism.

Look at the season as a whole. We have the worst home defensive record in Europe's major top flight leagues. I'd say yes, something is fundamentally wrong.

 

[davek]

Love how the locusts are out, post 1,000 messages at @davek and after each one either mock him or say different variations of "game over", "end of" etc.

No matter how many different ways you paint it, there is a view shared by many that we are indeed progressing thanks to this manager.

Absolutely spot on mate.

...and watch the 1000 responses dwindle to sweet FA if we turn Chelsea over on Saturday.

 

[Saint Domingo]

He will still praise Martinez even we finish in 17th. It's better than 5th is it obviously?

Same mate, in fact no Europa so it's a win for 17th

 

[njligernj]

I would have expected better results for a lot of Martinez's decisions this year -- even the ones I disagreed with. Regardless of this debate at large I don't think he's been handed any favours by fate.

Doesn't mean you can't fire someone just because they ran -EV but I'd factor it into my decision if my decision made any damn difference.

Everton are a weird club for hiring managers -- almost any manager we'd hire is either taking a step up or a step down which means adjustment v. most clubs that can say "should we go for someone proven with a club like us or not?"

 

[Saint Domingo]

Love how the locusts are out, post 1,000 messages at @davek and after each one either mock him or say different variations of "game over", "end of" etc.

No matter how many different ways you paint it, there is a view shared by many that we are indeed progressing thanks to this manager.

Play fair mate. After the Bounemouth result Chico and Mouts Goat were on here (with Davek) throwing a victory parade demanding bizarre surrenders from posters who hold reservations about Martinez. Telling everyone that the war was over and victory was theirs.

If you want to see the balance of views on this forum I think the Martinez in or out poll will paint a different picture.

Locusts? I prefer 'plotterz' mate.

 

[davek]

You do appreciate the need for defensive organisation in order to stop leaking goals though?

My point being, whose responsibility is that? If we assume it's largely Martinez's, at what point do we say 'that's enough goals given away'?

He has the quality players, he has the 20+ goals striker, he even has a top notch defence. We should be higher than 12th - serious question: at what point will you say enough is enough?

As I posted before mate, this defensive catastrophe argument all but stopped before last saturday. I see it as opportunistic and scaremongering. The stats are that since the New Year we've conceded 15 in 15 games. Not outrageously great, but not bad.

When is enough enough? If we spiral toward 14th 15th and finish there he'll be gone. But we have enough about us to climb the table and that'll settle it. The cup will complicate things too. regardless of PL position drifting further downward, if we make Wembley it'll be a hard call to call time on a manager who's got us into two cup SFs (or even more than that).

In short: RM wont be getting the push anytime soon, imo.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Absolutely spot on mate.

...and watch the 1000 responses dwindle to sweet FA if we turn Chelsea over on Saturday.

Nope. You'll still be hearing 'Martinez Out!' from this little corner - win, lose or draw.

Another thing; you've said that after the majority of games this season and I'm yet to see any evidence to corroborate it. All's I see is wins followed by abject defeats....And you spouting the same guff time after time...

And leicester are even further clear btw...

 

[mkrudden]

Play fair mate. After the Bounemouth result Chico and Mouts Goat were on here (with Davek) throwing a victory parade demanding bizarre surrenders from posters who hold reservations about Martinez. Telling everyone that the war was over and victory was theirs.

If you want to see the balance of views on this forum I think the Martinez in or out poll will paint a different picture.

Locusts? I prefer 'plotterz' mate.

lol

 

[Efcjake]

...and Moyes carried the rich tradition on.

Well in ginger minge.

lol

For one season and then led us to finish around 6th or 7th in nearly every season after. The football was dire but it was effective at times.

I know, I know. Who wants to finish near 6th or 7th when we could have the majesty that comes with finishing 12th under Martinez.

 

[davek]

we have played 14 games since the new year dave, thats twice now you have altered the stats to make your argument slightly more favourable.

12 games 8 goals - in relaity 12 games 11 goals
15 games 15 goals - in reality 14 games 15 goals

other stats only 9 of them games where league games, we got 12 points from those games, 5 of those games in the league where at home, we won 1 drew 1 and lost 3 of those. so 4 points out of 5 games. 3 of those games we had clean sheets in happened to be the FA Cup games against teams who played their second 11 against us.

We have thrown away a 2 goal lead against west ham to lose 3-2, a 2-0 lead against chelsea to draw 3-3 and a 3-1 aggrgate lead against city to lose 4-3 and go out the cup during that period, but keep on fiddling nero

15 games - 15 goals conceded (and 26 scored). Count them.

 

[bluestevon]

Why did you stop short of the 2003/04 season mate?

Oh yeah: the worst club points total amassed in 44 years by Moyes that had us at 17th in the table.

It must have slipped your mind.

Fair enough will go one better than that then Dave

1994-95 42 8 9 4 31 23 3 8 10 13 28 -7 50 15th
1995-96 38 10 5 4 35 19 7 5 7 29 25 +20 61 6th
1996-97 38 7 4 8 24 22 3 8 8 20 35 -13 42 15th
1997-98 38 7 5 7 25 27 2 8 9 16 29 -15 40 17th
1998-99 38 6 8 5 22 12 5 2 12 20 35 -7 43 14th
1999-2k 38 7 9 3 36 19 5 5 9 23 28 +12 50 13th
2000-01 38 6 8 5 29 27 5 1 13 16 32 -14 42 16th
2001-02 38 8 4 7 26 23 3 6 10 19 34 -12 43 15th
2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th
2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th
2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th
2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th
2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th
2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th
2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th
2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th
2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th
2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th
2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6th
2013-14 38 13 3 3 38 19 8 6 5 23 20 +22 72 5th
2014-15 38 7 7 5 27 21 5 4 10 21 29 -2 47 11th

our records since 1995, now tell me amongst which group of managers would martinez look right at home with given his last season and this seasons points totals?

I don't even like the bloke at all, but Moyes took over a team looking like it was going down and got them to safety in 15th, next season took that team from 15th to 7th, had a terrible following season then rebounded back with our best ever premiership finish - and one that even saint bobby failed to do by getting 4th!

Moyes took over a team that was constantly battling the drop and in a total mess and turned them into one that was top 6, martinez took over a team in top 6 and is taking us the opposite direction, both of them had one blip season, Moyes in 03/04 when he flirted with relegation, Martinez in 13/14 when he flirted with top 4, both aberrations

 

[Saint Domingo]

lol

For one season and then led us to finish around 6th or 7th in nearly every season after. The football was dire but it was effective at times.

I know, I know. Who wants to finish near 6th or 7th when we could have the majesty that comes with finishing 12th under Martinez.

Was it though? Or did Arteta Pienaar Osman Baines Cahill Yakubu Donovan Coleman and Mirallas actually serve up some pretty decent stuff? Including at one point one of the best left hand sides in the prem.

Last season was the definition of dire football. Worse than anything I ever saw Moyes serve up.

 

[davek]

Look at the season as a whole. We have the worst home defensive record in Europe's major top flight leagues. I'd say yes, something is fundamentally wrong.

There is something fundamental wrong: it's the home form. That's the blackhole. Cups and PL away form are very good.