Roberto Martinez discussion

[Whistlin' Dixie]

We should by now be in a position where it's highly unlikely we finish no lower than 6th.

If we do eventually finish 6th, then we'll be only very slightly ahead of those teams below. To me, that won't be a sign of how competitive the league has been this season (imo it's not been much different to most others, bar chelsea being so poor), but of our own inconsistency.

That said, 6th would be acceptable.

How many points you are off another team, during a season means nothing?

See above. Remember, we're 11th...League position is exponentially more important than how many points you are off 'x' position.

As everyone says when a team's top but the 2nd place is 3 pts behind but with game(s) in hand: "Rather have the points on the board".

 

[whiteshadow]

We should by now be in a position where it's highly unlikely we finish no lower than 6th.

If we do eventually finish 6th, then we'll be only very slightly ahead of those teams below. To me, that won't be a sign of how competitive the league has been this season (imo it's not been much different to most others, bar chelsea being so poor), but of our own inconsistency.

That said, 6th would be acceptable.

We should be more consistent, I agree with that. RM could and should have made better decisions during the season and been more pro active instead of reactive but I think some of it is due to our key players being so young. Barkely is inconsistent with his final balls in sometimes. We all know he's got the ability but he often either misreads Lukaku's run or misplaces the final ball. Lukaku despite his goals and improved hold up play isn't always aggressive enough and doesn't compete in the air well. Stones despite his skill on the ball often lets the attacker find space and doesn't defend well in the air consistently. Del can be hit and miss, just like Ronaldo was when he was first at Man Utd.

I'd say 50-60% of our inconsistency is due to RM but a fair bit of it is due to most of our key players being inexperienced, that's why although I'm not sure on RM and some stuff worries me I'm prepared to give him more time.

As to the league, I think the rich teams are worse than they have been for a while, which is shown in how they've all performed in the Champions Leauge recently but I think the teams in the mid table are stronger, on average, than they have been for a while.

See above. Remember, we're 11th...League position is exponentially more important than how many points you are off 'x' position.

As everyone says when a team's top but the 2nd place is 3 pts behind but with game(s) in hand: "Rather have the points on the board".

True, but the time to really worry is when there is a big gap between you and the positions you should be fighting for. RM has made some bad decisions this season but we've also had some bad luck in a few games, more than usual imo and we do have a young team that's improving with time. That gives me enough hope for the future to want to be patient with RM despite having some concerns.

I just really wish RM would stop chatting rubbish in his press conferences though, I think wether you don't like him or not he does himself no favours through being so positive when we play badly or there's a glaring issue it just makes him look stupid. He annoys me so much I don't even bother watching his press conferences and I'm patient compared to most people on the forum. lol

 

[daz4matty]

Clearly not. But 100% it was a mightily more entertaining season than the 'Champions League' season. That will be the CL that lasted 180 minutes beginning to end.

Ha ha lets not try to win any trophies or to get into europe lets just turn up enjoy ourselves and go the pub after.
Wow what a supporter

 

[Ihaters]

We should be more consistent, I agree with that. RM could and should have made better decisions during the season and been more pro active instead of reactive but I think some of it is due to our key players being so young. Barkely is inconsistent with his final balls in sometimes. We all know he's got the ability but he often either misreads Lukaku's run or misplaces the final ball. Lukaku despite his goals and improved hold up play isn't always aggressive enough and doesn't compete in the air well. Stones despite his skill on the ball often lets the attacker find space and doesn't defend well in the air consistently. Del can be hit and miss, just like Ronaldo was when he was first at Man Utd.

I'd say 50-60% of our inconsistency is due to RM but a fair bit of it is due to most of our key players being inexperienced, that's why although I'm not sure on RM and some stuff worries me I'm prepared to give him more time.

As to the league, I think the rich teams are worse than they have been for a while, which is shown in how they've all performed in the Champions Leauge recently but I think the teams in the mid table are stronger, on average, than they have been for a while.



True, but the time to really worry is when there is a big gap between you and the positions you should be fighting for. RM has made some bad decisions this season but we've also had some bad luck in a few games, more than usual imo and we do have a young team that's improving with time. That gives me enough hope for the future to want to be patient with RM despite having some concerns.

I just really wish RM would stop chatting rubbish in his press conferences though, I think wether you don't like him or not he does himself no favours through being so positive when we play badly or there's a glaring issue it just makes him look stupid. He annoys me so much I don't even bother watching his press conferences and I'm patient compared to most people on the forum. lol

Is there an issue of him playing too many kids? If its making us inconsistent, perhaps, instead of replacing old for young, we should buy the odd in-form mid career player if that's the case?

 

[Saint Domingo]

Once you arrived in Aigburth you would expect the driver too see his error and take you into town. You wouldn't expect him to claim Aigburth is in fact town and to get out here.

At that point you need those people who would argue that Aigburth is in fact town, and that the journey there had been more phenomenal than any drive they had ever taken to town.

 

[witchdoc187]

give him time - see what happens. don't believe in this instant fix. Whats the point of overhauling everything again and bringing in new people and if we don't finish 4th within 2 seasons start again? I'm just going to be patient.

 

[willo30]

give him time - see what happens. don't believe in this instant fix. Whats the point of overhauling everything again and bringing in new people and if we don't finish 4th within 2 seasons start again? I'm just going to be patient.

Terry Venables had a great saying which was something like "If what you are doing is wrong then all the practice in the world is only going to make you better at doing it wrong".

 

[whiteshadow]

Is there an issue of him playing too many kids? If its making us inconsistent, perhaps, instead of replacing old for young, we should buy the odd in-form mid career player if that's the case?

It's about getting the balance right, which isn't easy especially when a lot of fans aren't patient. I think what RM is trying to do is keep the majority of the young talent together long enough so they develop to a stage where they can break the top 4. Personally I don't think we're far off that if he can keep them together and add a couple of good signings over the close season.

All we need to do is get a good keeper in and tighten up at the back. If we can do that I'm pretty sure the team is capable of competing for top 4 next season.

 

[Yankfootball1]

Is there an issue of him playing too many kids? If its making us inconsistent, perhaps, instead of replacing old for young, we should buy the odd in-form mid career player if that's the case?

I don't think that is the answer - The whole direction of Martinez seems to be given Everton's status financially is to try to build something through youth that have special potential. There has to be a mix but I would say that is what McCarthy, Jag, Barry, Baines, Clev provide. That is your mid-career player. Surrounding players that have that talent, invariably you are going to have those bumps.

 

[whiteshadow]

To me, we've got to be at least challenging for top 6 next season and that's including if we lose any of our key players over the summer. If we lose anyone, which we may, he'll have more than enough money to buy quality replacements and have a squad that can challenge.

I think next season is make or break for RM to me.

 

[Ihaters]

I don't think that is the answer - The whole direction of Martinez seems to be given Everton's status financially is to try to build something through youth that have special potential. There has to be a mix but I would say that is what McCarthy, Jag, Barry, Baines, Clev provide. That is your mid-career player. Surrounding players that have that talent, invariably you are going to have those bumps.

We are spending plenty, finances are far better than they were previously because of Sky. No reason we have to go down the buy young, train up and sell route if we don't have to.

Not saying its a solution, just think the youth excuse is both a poor one and one that is actually detrimental to Martinez as an argument.

 

[4737carlin]

It's about getting the balance right, which isn't easy especially when a lot of fans aren't patient. I think what RM is trying to do is keep the majority of the young talent together long enough so they develop to a stage where they can break the top 4. Personally I don't think we're far off that if he can keep them together and add a couple of good signings over the close season.

All we need to do is get a good keeper in and tighten up at the back. If we can do that I'm pretty sure the team is capable of competing for top 4 next season.

Don't think it is as simple as a new keeper, yes we need one but the way our defense plays he is always going to be overworked no mater how good we are going forward of how competent the new keeper is.

 

[davek]

Don't think it is as simple as a new keeper, yes we need one but the way our defense plays he is always going to be overworked no mater how good we are going forward of how competent the new keeper is.

The recent defensive record that coincides with an errant GK being dropped would suggest otherwise.

Begovic and Robles competing for the #1 jersey next season would add a lot to our performance and secure better results. I dont think there's any doubt about that.

 

[whiteshadow]

We are spending plenty, finances are far better than they were previously because of Sky. No reason we have to go down the buy young, train up and sell route if we don't have to.

Not saying its a solution, just think the youth excuse is both a poor one and one that is actually detrimental to Martinez as an argument.

2015 CLOSE SEASON SPENDING

We are spending more than we have before but other than the Lukaku transfer we're not spending the kind of money that the clubs we aim to compete with are and the mid table clubs and even some lower midtable clubs will be spending more than us due to their lower wages and the increase in TV money.

We're spending more money than we have before but if all the other teams have more money and the teams in mid table are going to spend more it's not really valid, we're not a rich club and to compete with teams that are we need to gamble on young players with a lot of potential because we can't afford to go out and buy the finished article on the same level the rich clubs can.

 

[whiteshadow]

Don't think it is as simple as a new keeper, yes we need one but the way our defense plays he is always going to be overworked no mater how good we are going forward of how competent the new keeper is.

I did say tighten up at the back too in the same sentence tbf. Wether RM will tighten us up at the back I don't know if he will or can but I'm prepared to see if he can.