Roberto Martinez discussion

[riddick]

7th. Very decent if/when we get it because it'll mean we've hit 60 points or more in a season when we're bedding in a new generation of players who can go on to play together and we can build a future on.

So, 7th and hopefully at least a SF spot in one of the two cups available.

I just dont get it. I mean, no disrespect here, but you are so [Poor language removed] adamant about how he has hit the 'highest points total' of any Everton team ever with a team almost completely filled with you fraudster Moyes players. And now, three years after he has been in charge, you are 'OK with 60 points' with NO European football with a point total lower than what what you trump up as being 'this is what he can do'. How is it the two dont conflict with you?

 

[deipnosophist]

I just dont get it. I mean, no disrespect here, but you are so [Poor language removed] adamant about how he has hit the 'highest points total' of any Everton team ever with a team almost completely filled with you fraudster Moyes players. And now, three years after he has been in charge, you are 'OK with 60 points' with NO European football with a point total lower than what what you trump up as being 'this is what he can do'. How is it the two dont conflict with you?

Passionate support is not objective.

 

[USABlue]

If you're going to be such a stickler for comparing us with Spurs, then compare the finances too. Have a look at the excellent recent discussion of our finances at The Swiss Ramble....http://swissramble.blogspot.com/
We all want the moon on a stick, but sometimes it's a tricky business...

Main thing for me is the fixture list we had a tough run of games to start the season. At least wait until after the first 19 games (when everyone's played all other teams) to even bother comparing. Also it's not where you start but where you finish
Edit: more importantly we'really only 4 points off Spurs anyway ffs

 

[JAYTALITY]

I just dont get it. I mean, no disrespect here, but you are so [Poor language removed] adamant about how he has hit the 'highest points total' of any Everton team ever with a team almost completely filled with you fraudster Moyes players. And now, three years after he has been in charge, you are 'OK with 60 points' with NO European football with a point total lower than what what you trump up as being 'this is what he can do'. How is it the two dont conflict with you?

You really dont get it? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out Dave is lowering expectations so he doesn't look daft in his militant over zealous backing of Martinez. Which is very ironic cause lowering expectations is Moyes' most powerful weapon which Dave himself is hypocritically against.

 

[Goat]

7th. Very decent if/when we get it because it'll mean we've hit 60 points or more in a season when we're bedding in a new generation of players who can go on to play together and we can build a future on.

So, 7th and hopefully at least a SF spot in one of the two cups available.

Speechless here.

 

[TheFinnFan]

"Everton’s tactics closely resemble the best systems in Europe. They transition from a narrow, compact defensive position into a swarming counter-attacking shape in seconds, they press the ball in central midfield in perfect intervals, and distribute to the front four with neat triangles that exude a confidence and technical ability that only comes with fastidious coaching. These patterns are seared into the players’ muscle memories.

Their back four are superb on the ball (87% pass accuracy) and the midfield duo of Gareth Barry and James McCarthy are wonderfully in-sync when feeding passes towards the final third. But the star players are at the top end. Romelu Lukaku, Ross Barkley, and Gerard Deulofeu all possess the attributes of world-class footballers"

 

[davek]

I just dont get it. I mean, no disrespect here, but you are so [Poor language removed] adamant about how he has hit the 'highest points total' of any Everton team ever with a team almost completely filled with you fraudster Moyes players. And now, three years after he has been in charge, you are 'OK with 60 points' with NO European football with a point total lower than what what you trump up as being 'this is what he can do'. How is it the two dont conflict with you?

It's simple enough: in that first season he motivated a team already in situ and added to them the type of goalscorer Moyes would never have gone for. The result was a record points haul. It was an unbelievable effort and one that shouldn't have been seen as a benchmark for the following season. We fell away badly last season because that Moyes squad (already old and needing rebuilding when Martinez got here) couldn't handle the extra workload of a season in Europe on top of the domestic programme. This season he's got to grips with the squad rebuilding and he's been assimilating some good purchases into it. Anything this season that sees us comfortably top half and with a very respectable cup run is a very good effort. The foundations are being built for the future and Martinez is very definitely now constructing a team in his own image.

There was never going to be linear progression when Martinez came. The squad he inherited didn't allow for that. Instead we had a great season followed by a poor season. Now that the squad situation is reinvigorated we can look for that type of steady progress.

 

[WarringtonBlue]

It depends.

We have the quality to make top4 with Chelsea pooing the bed if we can bring how we played against Villa to the bigger sides

But other teams, not just the trad top 4 + Pool/Spurs, can now bring in big money signings on wages. See: West Ham, Palace, Stoke, Soton and even Leicester, who are owned by a rich family.

For as long as our board believe we are plucky Everton who think we can muddle through with (excellent) youth and bargain buys, the top half of the table will become ever more congested. I'm a huge huge fan of martinez's focus on youth, allowance of errors and style of play, but they cynic in me feels that he has no choice.

 

[Titus Bramble]

It's simple enough: in that first season he motivated a team already in situ and added to them the type of goalscorer Moyes would never have gone for. The result was a record points haul. It was an unbelievable effort and one that shouldn't have been seen as a benchmark for the following season. We fell away badly last season because that Moyes squad (already old and needing rebuilding when Martinez got here) couldn't handle the extra workload of a season in Europe on top of the domestic programme. This season he's got to grips with the squad rebuilding and he's been assimilating some good purchases into it. Anything this season that sees us comfortably top half and with a very respectable cup run is a very good effort. The foundations are being built for the future and Martinez is very definitely now constructing a team in his own image.

There was never going to be linear progression when Martinez came. The squad he inherited didn't allow for that. Instead we had a great season followed by a poor season. Now that the squad situation is reinvigorated we can look for that type of steady progress.

This is the bit people have the problem with, whether they admit it or not. We all want success now, of course we do, but if we don't get it in the first 2/3 years a lot of people get impatient. It's all about WINNING NOW OR YOU'VE FAILED. But we've got a very good young squad developing here which could bring this success in 2 or 3 years time. Let's be patient and enjoy the ride eh?

 

[Saint Domingo]

If you're going to be such a stickler for comparing us with Spurs, then compare the finances too. Have a look at the excellent recent discussion of our finances at The Swiss Ramble....http://swissramble.blogspot.com/
We all want the moon on a stick, but sometimes it's a tricky business...

Last season Spurs had a negative net spend. Finances are one aspect but if you just follow them blindly then you'd just accept a tenth position every season and there'd be no point even watching any games.

We have several factors in our favour that the immediate challengers for fourth do not have. We do not have Europa commitments, we have a manager who has been here for 2 seasons, we have a side that has played together for a long time. This should all point to improved performance yet we find ourselves currently level with a Liverpool and Southampton side who have recently changed manager and the majority of their first 11, and behind a Spurs side who have changed the spine of their team. Spurs and Liverpool have the Europa which supposedly killed us last year but seems to have no effect on them.

Like I said it's a decent start and we are in a decent position to push on. We can improve though and there's an argument we should have done a little better.

 

[Saint Domingo]

It's simple enough: in that first season he motivated a team already in situ and added to them the type of goalscorer Moyes would never have gone for. The result was a record points haul. It was an unbelievable effort and one that shouldn't have been seen as a benchmark for the following season. We fell away badly last season because that Moyes squad (already old and needing rebuilding when Martinez got here) couldn't handle the extra workload of a season in Europe on top of the domestic programme. This season he's got to grips with the squad rebuilding and he's been assimilating some good purchases into it. Anything this season that sees us comfortably top half and with a very respectable cup run is a very good effort. The foundations are being built for the future and Martinez is very definitely now constructing a team in his own image.

There was never going to be linear progression when Martinez came. The squad he inherited didn't allow for that. Instead we had a great season followed by a poor season. Now that the squad situation is reinvigorated we can look for that type of steady progress.

Moyes gets no credit for Martinez's first season but all the blame for the second one. Sounds about right.

Don't see how this sort of lineup in the league has anything to do with Moyes leaving an old squad

Howard

Coleman Jagielka Stones Baines

Barry McCarthy Besic

Etoo Lukaku Naismith

Martinez is righting his own wrongs from last season but just as he deserves credit for that he also deserves criticism for messing it up in the first place. He made mistakes that's fine, but this pretending that everything good at Everton is Martinez and everything bad is still the hangover from a manager who left 3 years ago is ridiculous.

 

[Saint Domingo]

This is the bit people have the problem with, whether they admit it or not. We all want success now, of course we do, but if we don't get it in the first 2/3 years a lot of people get impatient. It's all about WINNING NOW OR YOU'VE FAILED. But we've got a very good young squad developing here which could bring this success in 2 or 3 years time. Let's be patient and enjoy the ride eh?

We won't get another 3 years from these players. We'll have had 3 years by the end of this season. Unfortunately that's the modern game. Players like Lukaku or Stones will not stay somewhere 6 seasons without success.

 

[Prevenger17]

This is the bit people have the problem with, whether they admit it or not. We all want success now, of course we do, but if we don't get it in the first 2/3 years a lot of people get impatient. It's all about WINNING NOW OR YOU'VE FAILED. But we've got a very good young squad developing here which could bring this success in 2 or 3 years time. Let's be patient and enjoy the ride eh?

The only problem is, our young players are so good, you'd expect at least a gradual deconstruction over the next few years and we'll be plugging a few gaps with mixed success as the likes of Stones leaves. We're not going to have a firesale like Villa years ago or Southampton these days, but at least one or two of our worldies are going to be picked off before they hit their prime and they'll be hard to replace.

 

[Prevenger17]

Oh god, my opinion is lining up with Domingo's.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Oh god, my opinion is lining up with Domingo's.

Happens to everyone eventually, just embrace it.