Robert Elstone at the Inquiry

[davek]

Talking about quality of stadium, this time let's leave Goodison aside and look at the proposed Retaildome. Here's what Knowsley Council's own planning department had to say about it:

"The stadium is of a reasonable design, bearing in mind the brief for a functional and affordable building. It meets requirements to a modest level in terms of visual delight and in this regard responds to the objective in a limited way".

p.15 http://www.knowsley.gov.uk/resources/236506/LCC_INQ_2_Design_Review.pdf


World class? State of the art? Let's have some balance when we talk about what we might be leaving and what the board of directors in their wisdom are pushing us towards accepting.

 

[kenada_blue]

Talking about quality of stadium, this time let's leave Goodison aside and look at the proposed Retaildome. Here's what Knowsley Council's own planning department had to say about it:

"The stadium is of a reasonable design, bearing in mind the brief for a functional and affordable building. It meets requirements to a modest level in terms of visual delight and in this regard responds to the objective in a limited way".

p.15 http://www.knowsley.gov.uk/resources/236506/LCC_INQ_2_Design_Review.pdf


World class? State of the art? Let's have some balance when we talk about what we might be leaving and what the board of directors in their wisdom are pushing us towards accepting.

It'll be a modern structure with modern facilites. It'll be better than Goodison, more state of the art than Goodison in that respect.

Fair enough, we wont be getting a World class stadium - an Wembley, an Old Trafford, an Emirates. As long as it competes with your City of Manchester Stadiums, St James' Parks etc it would put us in good stead for the future.

But have you asked yourself this.....if this was all in a city centre location would you still be up in arms? If the exact same model, structure, price, Tesco's involvment, was either going to be the clubs new home somewhere in the city centre or Goodison was going to be rebuilt in the same way would it still be a problem?

Because I'm sure that we'd get if the price and everything else was the same but the location was different. Getting a Kings Dock oppourtunity aint gonna be coming around again.

 

[Makis]

But have you asked yourself this.....if this was all in a city centre location would you still be up in arms? If the exact same model, structure, price, Tesco's involvment, was either going to be the clubs new home somewhere in the city centre or Goodison was going to be rebuilt in the same way would it still be a problem?

I would be against it for many reasons. Just to name one: this stadium has LESS corporate boxes than St Mary's! The stadium is also extremely ugly and looks exactly what you can expect from a design by Barr: completely featureless. It already looks horrible on those pictures, I can't even start to imagine what it will look in ten years time when the paint doesn't look new anymore.

There is nothing to suggest it hasn't been designed as cheaply as possible to be as cheap as possible.

 

[Neiler]

I would be against it for many reasons. Just to name one: this stadium has LESS corporate boxes than St Mary's! The stadium is also extremely ugly and looks exactly what you can expect from a design by Barr: completely featureless. It already looks horrible on those pictures, I can't even start to imagine what it will look in ten years time when the paint doesn't look new anymore.

There is nothing to suggest it hasn't been designed as cheaply as possible to be as cheap as possible.

But its not landlocked is it mate, what to stop a redevelopment in i dont know the next few 100 years wel be there!

Foot in the door!

 

[SimonP]

It'll be a modern structure with modern facilites. It'll be better than Goodison, more state of the art than Goodison in that respect.

is that really enough though?

the JJB is "more state of the art than Goodison"

the reebok is "more state of the art than Goodison"

I don't want Everton playing in either of those stadia every other week either - and Kirkby looks like the JJB with an extra tier...

 

[gordonjblair]

But its not landlocked is it mate, what to stop a redevelopment in i dont know the next few 100 years wel be there!

Foot in the door!

All those shops in the way (which don't belong to us).

The financial arguments are crucial, but it's like getting a £52M gift voucher for Matalan, you can afford to splurge, but not really on anything you'd want your mates to see you in

 

[Nebbiolo]

All those shops in the way (which don't belong to us).

The financial arguments are crucial, but it's like getting a £52M gift voucher for Matalan, you can afford to splurge, but not really on anything you'd want your mates to see you in

Succinctly put, Gordon.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

is that really enough though?

the JJB is "more state of the art than Goodison"

the reebok is "more state of the art than Goodison"

I don't want Everton playing in either of those stadia every other week either - and Kirkby looks like the JJB with an extra tier...

Unfair to compare the stadium to the JJB or Reebok in every respect. What next, the Riverside?

Depends what you mean by "state of art" too really.

Unlike the likes of the JJB and the Riverside, as you know the Kirkby site isn't in the middle of no mans land. Lets put it simply - remaining at Goodison isn't an option. Building a stadium alone without the aid of a commercial partner isn't possible. So what are we left with realistically?

 

[kenada_blue]

I would be against it for many reasons. Just to name one: this stadium has LESS corporate boxes than St Mary's! The stadium is also extremely ugly and looks exactly what you can expect from a design by Barr: completely featureless. It already looks horrible on those pictures, I can't even start to imagine what it will look in ten years time when the paint doesn't look new anymore.

There is nothing to suggest it hasn't been designed as cheaply as possible to be as cheap as possible.

I like the design personally. It looks different to me. It'd be easier to just do the usual oval shape megadome like every big stadium. Which is why I did mention that the look of the stadium is more down to opinion - another mans [Poor language removed] is another mans gold so to speak.

But its really more down to the atmosphere that can be generated inside the ground and whether the design takes that into account for me. I'd rather that than make it look all flashy with a neon Dixie Dean feature statue propping a corner of the ground and a revolving pitch with matching blue strobes down the sides. I've read many people who've comented on the Emirates and say its an amazing stadium...but is very hollow inside, feels souless.

That's just me really.

 

[Neiler]

All those shops in the way (which don't belong to us).

The financial arguments are crucial, but it's like getting a £52M gift voucher for Matalan, you can afford to splurge, but not really on anything you'd want your mates to see you in

Ha ha there is the option to turn the stadium in to a 60,000 seater in the current designs without the the need to close any of the ground.

 

[SimonP]

Ha ha there is the option to turn the stadium in to a 60,000 seater in the current designs without the the need to close any of the ground.

not according to the planning application there isn't

and the Kirkby Stadium, Danny, looks exactly like the JJB with an extra tier

I was answering a question about the design - it's location has no bearing on the design critique

 

[SimonP]

Building a stadium alone without the aid of a commercial partner isn't possible.

luckily KEIOC have found Everton a commercial partner

Morgan Stanley

they helped fund Wembley and Twickenham

Everton sent MARK ROWAN to meet them - shows how seriously the club takes a proposition when they send the website editor to discuss multi-million pound stadium financing plans, doesn't it

 

[Neiler]

I like the design personally. It looks different to me. It'd be easier to just do the usual oval shape megadome like every big stadium. Which is why I did mention that the look of the stadium is more down to opinion - another mans [Poor language removed] is another mans gold so to speak.

But its really more down to the atmosphere that can be generated inside the ground and whether the design takes that into account for me. I'd rather that than make it look all flashy with a neon Dixie Dean feature statue propping a corner of the ground and a revolving pitch with matching blue strobes down the sides. I've read many people who've comented on the Emirates and say its an amazing stadium...but is very hollow inside, feels souless.

That's just me really.

Apparently:

The orthogonal stand configuration and general arrangement of the proposed stadium generates an uncomplicated form that is distinctive. The massing of the back of the house accommodation is broken down by expressing the access/egress stair cores to the upper tier with large curtain wall glazing elements, and the strong architectural rhythm is maintained by centering the spacing of the mast and cable stay roof structure over the stair core elements. The distinctive stadium roof structure has an elegant simplicity and the mast and cable stay solution provides a good visual balance, with relatively limited exposed structure above the roof cladding line.
​

 

[GrandOldTeam]

not according to the planning application there isn't

and the Kirkby Stadium, Danny, looks exactly like the JJB with an extra tier

I was answering a question about the design - it's location has no bearing on the design critique

No it doesn't. It'll be dark everytime we play at Kirkby and there will be Blue flashy lights

The location for me is important in a design, not only because of essentials such as room for expansion etc but if you have ever been to the likes of the Riverside, you'll understand that you don't want a stadium quite literally in the middle of nowhere. After the design was initially released, most people were made up with it?

Also, how many stands does the JJB have compared with Kirkby design? Thats a genuine question. Pretty sure Kirkby will have more than "one extra tier"

 

[Neiler]

luckily KEIOC have found Everton a commercial partner

Morgan Stanley

they helped fund Wembley and Twickenham

Everton sent MARK ROWAN to meet them - shows how seriously the club takes a proposition when they send the website editor to discuss multi-million pound stadium financing plans, doesn't it

There is in the proof of evidence document subbmitted to the public enquiry.