Quantity Vs Quality?

[ToxtethBlue]

I don't see your point to be honest. The likes of Peterlin, Arnoux and Mustafi haven't even been involved, I wouldn't even consider them fillers.

You could argue we brought around 6-7 players in during the 07-08 season. The likes of Pienaar, Yakubu, Baines, Jagielka aswell as the likes of Wessels, Gravesen and Fernandes in January. Lets not forget Big Tony.

For us, the likes of Distin, Heitinga and Bilyaletdinov would be considered big signings, considering there fees.The only player I'd consider boosting the numbers is Neill.

 

[monty]

That would rather more cast doubt on Moyes judgement as opposed to your title quantity or quality.

I agree Robert, like most clubs buying and selling isn't done to a preconceived plan its more like flying on the seat of your pants. If Lescott had said no the Citeh we'd be in [Poor language removed] street

 

[Goat]

For us, the likes of Distin, Heitinga and Bilyaletdinov would be considered big signings, considering there fees.The only player I'd consider boosting the numbers is Neill.

This is a good point, Distin was bought to replace Lesscock, Billy for Osman and possibly Johhny for Hibbert.

 

[Neiler]

I don't see your point to be honest. The likes of Peterlin, Arnoux and Mustafi haven't even been involved, I wouldn't even consider them fillers.

You could argue we brought around 6-7 players in during the 07-08 season. The likes of Pienaar, Yakubu, Baines, Jagielka aswell as the likes of Wessels, Gravesen and Fernandes in January. Lets not forget Big Tony.

For us, the likes of Distin, Heitinga and Bilyaletdinov would be considered big signings, considering there fees.The only player I'd consider boosting the numbers is Neill.

So describing signings is based on wheather they have been involved or not! Is Garbutt a signing or not, we payed about 1mill for him. Like i say by your rationale Seamie became a signing when he made his debut. Although im sure Sligo or their accountants wouldnt agree.

I didnt include Jan signings mate i was making the point about the number of players in one transfer window.

Yup i wouldnt disagree on Billy, Heitnga maybe Distin on i would. I suppose if you added the three fees and went after one or two players, it is possible they could have been maybe bigger names like Mouthino, Van Der Varrt etc. Like i say i recognise the need for balance, just trying to get a sense of what people would prefer and whichoptionbest services the team, 8 players for a certain amount of money or maybe one or two bigger peices of the jigsaw.

 

[kenada_blue]

You’ve got to take into account the players leaving too…

Valente
Van Der Meyde
Castillo
Jacobsen
Lescott

Long term players injured
Jagielka
Arteta

That’s 7 players out, one of who (Lescott) covered 2 positions (LB and CB), replaced by 5 players –
Distin
Heitinga
Neil
Bilyaletdinov
Jo.

So we’ve got rid of some fringe players for better players and 1 key defender, but we’re still 2 squad players down on last season But what we’ve got are 4 players who can hold a 1st team place.

The reason why we’ve been poor for this season is that the thin squad got stretched due to injuries (obviously). There was a point this season when we had 9 key players out (Yobo, Distin, Pienaar, Baines, Rodwell, Arteta, Jagielka, Osman, Saha) injured for games rather than it being we’ve bought too many players.

I do think we would’ve coped better this season with 1 or 2 experienced but average Osman-type bench warmers out to earn a place. Moyes does play his youth but he generally is forced to do so because he’s got no other options. Those bench warmers would make his decisions easier.

Donovan and another transfer/loan would cover us better me thinks.

 

[Hayee]

I suppose my point boils down to with a limited budget, is it better useing the entire buget on one or two quality players for example: Baines, Yak 07/08 and Fellaini 08/09 or padding out the squad in terms of numbers?​

Jagielka?

 

[Neiler]

You’ve got to take into account the players leaving too…

Valente
Van Der Meyde
Castillo
Jacobsen
Lescott

Long term players injured
Jagielka
Arteta

That’s 7 players out, one of who (Lescott) covered 2 positions (LB and CB), replaced by 5 players –
Distin
Heitinga
Neil
Bilyaletdinov
Jo.

So we’ve got rid of some fringe players for better players and 1 key defender, but we’re still 2 squad players down on last season But what we’ve got are 4 players who can hold a 1st team place.

The reason why we’ve been poor for this season is that the thin squad got stretched due to injuries (obviously). There was a point this season when we had 9 key players out (Yobo, Distin, Pienaar, Baines, Rodwell, Arteta, Jagielka, Osman, Saha) injured for games rather than it being we’ve bought too many players.

I do think we would’ve coped better this season with 1 or 2 experienced but average Osman-type bench warmers out to earn a place. Moyes does play his youth but he generally is forced to do so because he’s got no other options. Those bench warmers would make his decisions easier.

Donovan and another transfer/loan would cover us better me thinks.

Good post mate, though you could argue that the likes of Coleman, Rodwell, Duffy etc have added to nos - inclusive on this and other new faaces thats a hell of a lot of new faces in a short peice of time.

 

[Neiler]

Jagielka?

Oh and what Hay said!

 

[ToxtethBlue]

So describing signings is based on wheather they have been involved or not! Is Garbutt a signing or not, we payed about 1mill for him. Like i say by your rationale Seamie became a signing when he made his debut. Although im sure Sligo or their accountants wouldnt agree.

I didnt include Jan signings mate i was making the point about the number of players in one transfer window.

Yup i wouldnt disagree on Billy, Heitnga maybe Distin on i would. I suppose if you added the three fees and went after one or two players, it is possible they could have been maybe bigger names like Mouthino, Van Der Varrt etc. Like i say i recognise the need for balance, just trying to get a sense of what people would prefer and whichoptionbest services the team, 8 players for a certain amount of money or maybe one or two bigger peices of the jigsaw.

I think there's a difference between a senior signing and a signing who's clearly not going to be involved in the first team. Peterlin, Arnoux and Mustafi haven't, they are reserve team players. That was the case from day one, certainly with Mustafi and Peterlin.

Realistically, looking at the first team, we have only brought in Jo, Distin, Bilyaletdinov, Heitinga and Neill. And that is less than the likes of Wessels, Gravesen, Pienaar, Yakubu, Baines and Jagielka during the 07-08 season.

So really, when you look at it, there isn't much difference. The difference is the quality of signings and how they have performed. It's not down to numbers.

 

[monty]

You’ve got to take into account the players leaving too…

Valente
Van Der Meyde
Castillo
Jacobsen
Lescott

Long term players injured
Jagielka
Arteta

That’s 7 players out, one of who (Lescott) covered 2 positions (LB and CB), replaced by 5 players –
Distin
Heitinga
Neil
Bilyaletdinov
Jo.

So we’ve got rid of some fringe players for better players and 1 key defender, but we’re still 2 squad players down on last season But what we’ve got are 4 players who can hold a 1st team place.

The reason why we’ve been poor for this season is that the thin squad got stretched due to injuries (obviously). There was a point this season when we had 9 key players out (Yobo, Distin, Pienaar, Baines, Rodwell, Arteta, Jagielka, Osman, Saha) injured for games rather than it being we’ve bought too many players.

I do think we would’ve coped better this season with 1 or 2 experienced but average Osman-type bench warmers out to earn a place. Moyes does play his youth but he generally is forced to do so because he’s got no other options. Those bench warmers would make his decisions easier.

Donovan and another transfer/loan would cover us better me thinks.

We badly need a decent back up for Tim Howard, Nash isn't good enough and Moyes has sent out the youngsters who tbh are not good enough either. All we need is an injury to Tim or a sending off and we are in [Poor language removed] street, in my book such a signing must take priority over all others

 

[Neiler]

I think there's a difference between a senior signing and a signing who's clearly not going to be involved in the first team. Peterlin, Arnoux and Mustafi haven't, they are reserve team players. That was the case from day one, certainly with Mustafi and Peterlin.

Realistically, looking at the first team, we have only brought in Jo, Distin, Bilyaletdinov, Heitinga and Neill. And that is less than the likes of Wessels, Gravesen, Pienaar, Yakubu, Baines and Jagielka during the 07-08 season.

So really, when you look at it, there isn't much difference. The difference is the quality of signings and how they have performed. It's not down to numbers.

Na by your rationale it does, i dont agree. What if Peterlin, Mustafi, Garbutt, Arronux make their debuts by the end of the season. Mustafi and Garbutt have both been in match day squads and on the bench, Mustafi has already played in Europe.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Na by your rationale it does, i dont agree. What if Peterlin, Mustafi, Garbutt, Arronux make their debuts by the end of the season. Mustafi and Garbutt have both been in match day squads and on the bench, Mustafi has already played in Europe.

But they haven't, therefore they've had little to no impact on the season. All they've done is cover (sit on the bench) for an injury hit squad. And most of them, if not all of them, train with the reserve team, not the first team. Peterlin and Mustafi certainly do.

Even if that is the case, the point of your thread still doesn't stand. I've shown you who we signed during the 07-08 season, six players before the season started and two during January. As many, if not more than we signed this season.

It mainly comes down the quality of the players Moyes buys, or in some cases, how long they take to adapt and fit in.

 

[Robert Jarvis]

And if they don't.

 

[kenada_blue]

Good post mate, though you could argue that the likes of Coleman, Rodwell, Duffy etc have added to nos - inclusive on this and other new faaces thats a hell of a lot of new faces in a short peice of time.

True. Rodwell is a 1st teamer now so that's another so called "signing" in terms of 1st team players. Same could be said of Gosling (both are injured at the moment) but both fall down the pecking order to squad players when everyone is fit.Then there is Vaughan and Anichebe.

Coleman is another breaking through to add to the "signings" bin. Other's like Duffy and Mustafi arent really considered to be part of the 1st team squad IMO at the moment.

So far, the 1st team is --
Howard
Nash
Hibbert
Coleman
Heitinga
Jagielka
Baines
Ditsin
Yobo
Neill
Rodwell
Gosling
Neville
Arteta
Pienaar
Bilyaledinov
Osman
Cahill
Fellaini
Saha
Yakubu
Vaughan
Anichebe

When fit, that's the basic 1st team 23 man squad.

So the question is, is that too many players over quality of players?

I dont think so. Adding Donovan, Jo, and maybe 1 more to the list, its slowly getting back on its feet with the right about of squad players and key players.

Injuries have just killed everyone and areas such as the wings/pace still need improving.

And with players inevitably leaving in the summer, Moyes will have to bring in more.

 

[Neiler]

But they haven't, therefore they've had little to no impact on the season. All they've done is cover (sit on the bench) for an injury hit squad. And most of them, if not all of them, train with the reserve team, not the first team. Peterlin and Mustafi certainly do.

Even if that is the case, the point of your thread still doesn't stand. I've shown you who we signed during the 07-08 season, six players before the season started and two during January. As many, if not more than we signed this season.

It mainly comes down the quality of the players Moyes buys, or in some cases, how long they take to adapt and fit in.

Yeah ok mate two out of the four non signings have been in the first team squad, bench and one made their debut. They dont count though!

I wasnt making a point in my thread mate, i was asking peoples opinions ive said a few times i see the need to have a balance. To be honest i dont consider Wessels, Gravesen, Pienaar, Yakubu, Baines and Jagielka real signings because i dont like their haircuts.

Your right though it prob does come down to quality, i would say more continuity myself.