"Punching above their weight..."

[kenada_blue]

Another good point.

Overall, I think Everton need more credit that they deserve. The club is getting bracketted into a corner of overacheivers now (again). All I hear is that we need to spend millions every season just to not be written off again next year.

For the press, and most clubs themselves, its all about "who's going to break the top 4, be the new Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal?" rather than….we have to beat Everton to get on the right track.

The only manager to actually come out and say they need to beat us is Martin O Neil with Villa…and are they punching above their weight?

 

[Screech]

That was a cracker of a post

Now how do I send this positive rep stuff? :huh:

EDIT: Found it

 

[turner]

lordyefc: excellent post. i'm not quoting it though in case the entire internet crashes.

 

[Makis]

But we're not a top 4 side so why compare to them? So by what you're saying, compared to how the top 4 spends, everyone punches above their weight? The top 4 sides already have good teams. They pay over the odds to improve that team over seasons. Apart from Chelsea (who never this year btw), the rest of the top 4 bring in 1 or 2 players per season for the in and around the same transfer fee's as a Spurs or Citeh can afford. They have good management and a good squad (as United and Arsenal show with their youth teams) before you even think about how much they spend per year.

Just look at how much ManU, Liverpool or Chelsea have spent. Arsenal is the only one you can compare pound-per-pound to Spurs, but they built their core years ago and also got an excellent manager. It's a complete fallacy to compare the likes of those three and Spurs or Newcastle. Spurs and Newcastle, btw, can't attract the quality of the likes of Torres.

Again, isnt that shrewd buys and great management? Moyes reflects the club, Moyes has shaped the club. You tell me, do you think Moyes feels we are a club who punches above its weight because we've bought bargins? Or does he thing we are a team that works hard, plan, manage, graft, utlise tactics, do what a good football clubs do to get a result?

So, if Fulham had ended up fifth, they wouldn't have punched above their height either? When do a club do that then? That's a simple question I already asked that you didn't answer. Is it even possible to punch above your height in football and when would this happen?

I think it does. Like I said, 1 or 2 seasons, then yes. But for 7 years? West Ham, Fulham, Stoke - punched above their weight this season due to form of last season and behind the scenes troubles. We finish 5th again, 6th the previous year….and shouldn’t be there because we don’t have the funds?

Do you think our form would continue if Moyes left?

What has that got to do with anything? Boro had Southgate as a manger for around 4 years or something, had more funds than us, and where are they? Because we've had the same manager for 7 years we should finish 5th? Doesn’t make sense.

Southgate is clearly an inferior manager, so what's your point?

I don’t understand that. You're saying money dictates how well a club does and not how the club is ran and managed? Ask Newcastle the same thing. What have Spurs done apart from the Carling Cup? Havent Citeh spent £60million? Villa ended up exactly where they were last year.

Oh for crying out loud... grab a textbook on "logic", please. "Money is required for success" does not mean the same thing as "Money guarantees success".

So by you're definition - to be a club that doesn’t punch above its weight we should be able to spend £40million in a summer, just to jump out of that bracket?

Pretty much, yes.

I don’t agree. IMO Saying we punch above our weight now is a derogatory and undermining term to use in context of the club and what Moyes has done for 7 years.

Moyes has maximised and then some the resources given to him. It is the exact opposite of derogatory to say that.

 

[Dixie Dean]

Here here! I kept hearing that during the match and was getting tired of it as well. I hope for us to cut into the top 4 money machines' territory next season.

 

[kenada_blue]

Originally Posted by kenada_blue
So by you're definition - to be a club that doesn’t punch above its weight we should be able to spend £40million in a summer, just to jump out of that bracket?

Pretty much, yes.

That's all I needed to know.

Bascially, you're saying untill we have £40million to spend in the summer we will always punch above our weight (we have done for 7 years). If we had £40mill to spend and did exactly the same as we've done this year, we will cease to be a club punching above weight.

I don’t agree. I feel we've done enough over 7 years to warrant not being a club punching above it weight. You do. Leave it at that.

As for Fulham, like I said before, if they came 5th this year - punching above their weight - if they came 5th for 7 years or so, I wouldnt say they were punching above their weight, I'd say they were a bloody good team.

And I do feel its derogatory because people cant seperate finances from the team and how its managed and performs.

 

[Gerard_Francis]

Punching above your weight means to fight at a level above what would be expected of you in terms of ability. Been in the top 6 for 3 consecutive seasons now and that’s what pundits and the media expect from an Everton team. Punching above your weight on a purely financial basis is a different statement.

 

[kenada_blue]

Punching above your weight means to fight at a level above what would be expected of you in terms of ability. Been in the top 6 for 3 consecutive seasons now and that’s what pundits and the media expect from an Everton team. Punching above your weight on a purely financial basis is a different statement.

And that's why I dont feel we are punching above our weight because the team has ability. Our full strength side can do toe to toe with the sky 4 any day of the week.

 

[kirkbyscouse_1989]

Just threatin motty by saying we will wash is duffle coat for him he will soon back down.