Phil Jagielka

[BlueToff]

I think theres more than one way to 'lead' or be a captain. We've seen the likes of Gerrard, Terry etc be all up in the refs face etc and everyone scream 'THATS A PROPER LEADER, A PROPER CAPTAIN' etc etc, but like i say, there's more than one way and Jagielka obviously leads differently, leads through his performances and the lads quite clearly like him.

Would i like him to be in the refs face more screaming for the decisions? Yes, i actually would. But a lot seem to be basing their 'HE IS NOT A GOOD CAPTAIN' argument on that alone.

I love Jagielka. Being only 22 he's hands down the best defender ive seen at Everton, he's brilliant.

That challenge on Costa by the way, set the standard. Thats what a Captain does, sets standards.

Yep. I think when we're defending a lead etc then Jags is an excellent leader as he leads by example.

The problem is is when the game has gone to pot, like it did at W.Ham, there seemed to be nobody in that defence organising or shouting etc, and it's happened a lot this season.

Like you though, as a just-21-year-old, in the top three defenders we've had during my time watching us (that 08-09 season when we got to the final with him and Lescott at the back they were superb, gutted when he got injured).

BTW, as a note, that 08-09 team barely gets a mention but I think that squad was the squad truly 'in its prime'.

I know we had a lot of injuries but even so...

Howard
Jagielka
Lescott
Baines (coming through after a year of little gametime)
Arteta
Fellaini
Pienaar
Osman
(even) Neville...
Cahill
Saha
Yakubu

That was a hell of a core of a squad at the time.

 

[BlueToff]

I don't really know if Robles has improved per se, but he's a lot more confident. Besic had that talent, see the world cup, he needed to adapt to the premiership's pace. Hence the stupid amount of soft tissue injuries. We may just have a difference of opinions but I think it's vital to have a solid defence. Martinez hasn't concentrated on that for 7 years in the prem. If he has to spend big in the summer to do so, he's doing it wrong.

I don't agree when people claim we need new defenders.

Unless we sell Stones (probably likely) we don't. The personnel are all fine it's the system of how we defend that's the issue.

I was pointing this out in the transfer thread last night when people were saying Shawcross.

You could put Bobby Moore in this side and we'd still concede a fair few I reckon... It's just because - in a lot of league games - we seem not to defend as a unit. This specifically happens from home.

Away from home, more often than not, and in games like Saturday or against City in the league cup, we defended as a unit rather than each man just thinking for themselves.

It works a lot better.

 

[bluestevon]

I don't agree when people claim we need new defenders.

Unless we sell Stones (probably likely) we don't. The personnel are all fine it's the system of how we defend that's the issue.

I was pointing this out in the transfer thread last night when people were saying Shawcross.

You could put Bobby Moore in this side and we'd still concede a fair few I reckon... It's just because - in a lot of league games - we seem not to defend as a unit. This specifically happens from home.

Away from home, more often than not, and in games like Saturday or against City in the league cup, we defended as a unit rather than each man just thinking for themselves.

It works a lot better.

it's IMO because we don't close down or press mate, Besic does, so does Lennon, but they are the only ones who do is consistantly, every one else presses now and again when they feel like it, as a team we have pressed maybe 3-4 times this season for a full game, and no coincidence that some of the best results have came in those games and none of the awful results have

Not saying we have to go all Klopp and run around like mad chickens chasing the ball, but theirs a happy medium between that type of play and what we do which is sit off ridiculously at times.

With our way of playing especially at home putting pressure on the opponent is a must really plus closing down would cut out the seemingly weekly sight of a bloke throwing a ball in under no pressure to the 6y box

 

[BlueToff]

it's IMO because we don't close down or press mate, Besic does, so does Lennon, but they are the only ones who do is consistantly, every one else presses now and again when they feel like it, as a team we have pressed maybe 3-4 times this season for a full game, and no coincidence that some of the best results have came in those games and none of the awful results have

Not saying we have to go all Klopp and run around like mad chickens chasing the ball, but theirs a happy medium between that type of play and what we do which is sit off ridiculously at times.

With our way of playing especially at home putting pressure on the opponent is a must really plus closing down would cut out the seemingly weekly sight of a bloke throwing a ball in under no pressure to the 6y box

Spot on as well mate.

We pressed early doors on Saturday and it unsettled Chelsea.

Our weakest point of the game came when we dropped off around the 20-minute mark though.

And, credit where it's due, at half time RM changed it and pushed Cleverley inside, meaning Barkley pressed on and it pressed Chelsea back and into moving the ball forward quicker and with longer passes which suited us.

That does open up gaps (e.g. the Costa chance), but overall it worked perfectly.

 

[bluestevon]

Spot on as well mate.

We pressed early doors on Saturday and it unsettled Chelsea.

Our weakest point of the game came when we dropped off around the 20-minute mark though.

And, credit where it's due, at half time RM changed it and pushed Cleverley inside, meaning Barkley pressed on and it pressed Chelsea back and into moving the ball forward quicker and with longer passes which suited us.

That does open up gaps (e.g. the Costa chance), but overall it worked perfectly.

Good anaylses mate and pretty much spot on

It's why the much criticised sub against West Ham had such an impact on the game, up until that point as a team we had been closing West Ham down as soon as they got to a certain point inside our half and closed them down so well that they hadn't really created anything, but a lot of that was due to lennon and as him and Besic have shown in a few games this year, it can be infectous on the team, soon as he went off the etnrie team seemed to start sitting off them (not helped by being down to ten men and then going narrow across midifled)

It's why the next two games should be interesting and i actually expect us to turn over Arsenal and United convincingly - we will be starting Besic and Lennon and the effect having both in the team will have on the rest will ensure a high workrate, pressing performance from the rest of the team i reckon.

As you know i'm an adovacte of replacing Martinez this summer, but IF he would ditch his backroom staff from his Wigan days and get in a competent and experienced team behind him at tp level i may be willing to think he can spot the blindingly obvious and make moves to fix things

 

[Michaelcoyb]

Proper captain would've put that in.

 

[Zatara]

Ive said it a few times this season (and this has nothing to do with his footballing ability) but he is no captain.

Bruce...Adams...Terry...our own Dave Watson in our last cup winning season...leaders from central defence.

He simply isnt the leader this team needs. Moyes made him captain when he knew he was leaving and it seems Martinez hs stuck with him (same as howard) due to his experience and not wanting to upset the squad.

For me, i dont know who would make the best captain now but it isnt Jagielka!

Stones is a class above him when on form and Mori will hopefully improve again for next season.

In the summer we need a new captain to emerge OR we need to sign someone with leadership ability, like a talisman.

 

[Number_25]

In all seriousness, Funes Mori was caught out twice in both goals today. How is Jagielka supposed to fill the role of 2 CBs?

 

[DanEFC92]

Thought he was tosh. Again.

 

[Goat]

Never forget.

 

[Zatara]

In all seriousness, Funes Mori was caught out twice in both goals today. How is Jagielka supposed to fill the role of 2 CBs?

Mori saved Jags 2ce....Mori is inexperienced in the league and has been playing next to Stones now Jags.

Hes looked far better next to Stones...

 

[ricer10]

Jags MOM for me today...

 

[GrandOldTeam]

In his prime, a great backs to the wall defender. Every ounce a Moyes player. He doesn't suit Martinez' style/philosophy. His weakness has always been distribution, we stick him next to Stones and he doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

Ranieri recently talking up playing to your players strengths. Playing out from the back isn't doing that.

I also don't think he's a great choice of captain...

 

[PhilM]

Ranieri recently talking up playing to your players strengths. Playing out from the back isn't doing that.

I also don't think he's a great choice of captain...

Agree with the first point that Jagielka (and possibly others) are nowhere near being utilised to his strengths, which then undermines our defence.

With regards to captain-ship: it's hard to judge as while he's obviously not a very vocal player on the pitch, he may be great behind the scenes.

However, when your captain looked as disenchanted as ours did yesterday in his post-match interview then it's certainly a huge worry.

It's his job to gee-up the squad and keep the motivation high, but if his own is as low as it appeared then it's no wonder they all look downtrodden.

 

[mkrudden]

Was excellent yesterday.