Nothing But The Average Is Good Enough. - The Clubs Mentality.

[EFC NY]

These were players who didnt need motivating once they put the shirt on.

We have 4 or 5 players who have gone off the boil and need reminding what the club motto means. It is up to DM to enforce that philosophy into the players.
The bigger problem for DM than say 4 years ago, is that a player lethargy has set in and he needs to recognise it pdq.

Player lethargy is right. Many of our best players have been with the club for a while, and things may be getting a bit stale for them. Its hard to maintain the same core for an extended period of time, unless you are always winning.

Similar problem is that all of our players seem to playing good but not great right now. In general, our overall roster and depth is good, but we are not really getting any high end performances. Maybe Moyes needs to restructure the team by sacraficing some depth and quality at some positions in exchange for some high end talent. Putting out 11 very good, but not great, players is not going to get it done. Maybe, instead, we put out 8 very good ones, 2 barely average, and one superstar. Sure, the bottom end of the team may cost us some games, but the high end player or two will get us 3 points. Rather go W L W L W than D D D W L.

 

[Neiler]

I disagree, I think you have to be realistic, I'm not expecting miracles, but this team is should in the the top eight, our record proves that. Getting beat by teams like Newcastle and West Brom isn't good enough, and shouldn't be accepted as the norm.

Moyes has brought some excellent players to the club, the prices of these players do not dictate how good they are. Cahill, Pienaar and Arteta, for example, aren't 2 million pound players. You've got to praise him for that, but he has got to get performances out of them. If he doesn't, he'll rightly be criticized.

If you are talking about dominating English football or even being dead certs for Champions League football, then I agree, we aren't that good, and anyone who thinks we are needs to be realistic.

You have to look at in context though other teams have developed squads while we have built a team and papered over the cracks in a sense padding out the squad, certainitly at a leesor rate then what we would consider our main competitiors in recent season. Its no secretor coincidence the clubs with the biggest squads are at the top of the Prem right down to 5th place. Yes we have some good players, but we arguably play hen to much making them prone to injury, fatiuqe etc, equally suspenisons and injuries hit us hard as we have seen in the past in recent weeks and possibly the weeks to come.

For me this is largely down to living within our means, we dont have the expierenced depth others have, we rely on younger players to make up the numbers who though immensely talented have limits in their own development. My point being we are used to compeateing with the likes of Spurs, City etc but we have known for a long time the playing pitch is uneven we cant demand the same rate of expectaion with regard to our expenditure and means and as such can really have no complaints when our position matches our means, expenditure and sqaud depth in comparrison.

 

[Chang Elephant]

The mentality of the fans needs to change for me, we have no right to expect as much as we do, we have been punching above our weight for a long time under Davey and we have have become a bit spoilt in term sof expectations. Pound for pound we're probably in the position we deserve to be.

If only the fans had got off their arse and helped find the missing ringfenced money we'd be in the Kings Dock now. Where were the fans when the Club needed reminding to get the agreement with Gosling in writing?

There's loads of incidents like this where me, you and others have let this club down. We don't deserve them. :blink:

 

[davek]

You have to look at in context though other teams have developed squads while we have built a team and papered over the cracks in a sense padding out the squad, certainitly at a leesor rate then what we would consider our main competitiors in recent season. Its no secretor coincidence the clubs with the biggest squads are at the top of the Prem right down to 5th place. Yes we have some good players, but we arguably play hen to much making them prone to injury, fatiuqe etc, equally suspenisons and injuries hit us hard as we have seen in the past in recent weeks and possibly the weeks to come.

For me this is largely down to living within our means, we dont have the expierenced depth others have, we rely on younger players to make up the numbers who though immensely talented have limits in their own development. My point being we are used to compeateing with the likes of Spurs, City etc but we have known for a long time the playing pitch is uneven we cant demand the same rate of expectaion with regard to our expenditure and means and as such can really have no complaints when our position matches our means, expenditure and sqaud depth in comparrison.

Agreed. Our squad, despite the trumpeting pre-season, continues to be threadbare for a side that has CL qualification pretensions. How many games are Agard, Barkley, Mustafi, Silva, Baxter, Gueye going to get? That's getting on for a fifth of the squad. It's a mirage that we're moving forward as an organisation.

 

[dixie1928]

Agreed. Our squad, despite the trumpeting pre-season, continues to be threadbare for a side that has CL qualification pretensions. How many games are Agard, Barkley, Mustafi, Silva, Baxter, Gueye going to get? That's getting on for a fifth of the squad. It's a mirage that we're moving forward as an organisation.

Normally agree with every word you write, but really not getting the "With CL pretensions" stuff. Who on earth thought this?

 

[davek]

Normally agree with every word you write, but really not getting the "With CL pretensions" stuff. Who on earth thought this?

I think many/most do have pretensions we can get 4th place with a fair wind behind us.

 

[dixie1928]

Normally agree with every word you write, but really not getting the "With CL pretensions" stuff. Who on earth thought this?

Oh dear God. No wonder there's unrest. Genuinely surprised. I mean. What?

 

[ToxtethBlue]

You have to look at in context though other teams have developed squads while we have built a team and papered over the cracks in a sense padding out the squad, certainitly at a leesor rate then what we would consider our main competitiors in recent season. Its no secretor coincidence the clubs with the biggest squads are at the top of the Prem right down to 5th place. Yes we have some good players, but we arguably play hen to much making them prone to injury, fatiuqe etc, equally suspenisons and injuries hit us hard as we have seen in the past in recent weeks and possibly the weeks to come.

For me this is largely down to living within our means, we dont have the expierenced depth others have, we rely on younger players to make up the numbers who though immensely talented have limits in their own development. My point being we are used to compeateing with the likes of Spurs, City etc but we have known for a long time the playing pitch is uneven we cant demand the same rate of expectaion with regard to our expenditure and means and as such can really have no complaints when our position matches our means, expenditure and sqaud depth in comparrison.

I don't buy it to be honest, I think the average age of our squad is something like 27, and we haven't had a major injury crisis this year, no more so than lots of teams. Tottenham have had a major injury crisis in defence for example, Arsenal's injuries seem to be year in year out. I defended Moyes in this area last season, but he's got no excuses this season. The only real youngster that's properly involved in our setup at the moment is Jack Rodwell. It's all good mentioning players like Gueye, Duffy and Baxter but they aren't involved at all, maybe the odd appearence on the bench, and even then, they are mainly surrounded by experienced, international footballers.

We should be finishing in the top eight, in and around teams like Manchester City and Tottenham.

 

[Matt Damon]

I disagree, I think you have to be realistic, I'm not expecting miracles, but this team is should in the the top eight, our record proves that. Getting beat by teams like Newcastle and West Brom isn't good enough, and shouldn't be accepted as the norm.

Moyes has brought some excellent players to the club, the prices of these players do not dictate how good they are. Cahill, Pienaar and Arteta, for example, aren't 2 million pound players. You've got to praise him for that, but he has got to get performances out of them. If he doesn't, he'll rightly be criticized.

If you are talking about dominating English football or even being dead certs for Champions League football, then I agree, we aren't that good, and anyone who thinks we are needs to be realistic.

I agree with this.

I also state it is DAVID MOYES who has once again allowed us to begin living up to the club motto "nil satis nisi optimum".


Because frankly when we lose we are MEGA GUTTED and want better. We strive for "nisi optimum" all the time.


But that doesn't excuse the cringeworthy attacks on Moyes.

We are Evertonians. We should act like it and support the team to do better by encouragement to live up to the motto.

 

[Neiler]

I don't buy it to be honest, I think the average age of our squad is something like 27, and we haven't had a major injury crisis this year, no more so than lots of teams. Tottenham have had a major injury crisis in defence for example, Arsenal's injuries seem to be year in year out. I defended Moyes in this area last season, but he's got no excuses this season. The only real youngster that's properly involved in our setup at the moment is Jack Rodwell. It's all good mentioning players like Gueye, Duffy and Baxter but they aren't involved at all, maybe the odd appearence on the bench, and even then, they are mainly surrounded by experienced, international footballers.

We should be finishing in the top eight, in and around teams like Manchester City and Tottenham.

Ive no idea the points your making, as your not disagreeing with any thing i said, yes other team have had injury crisies Spurs and Arsneal but they have the squads to cope we havent because of our means the depth of our squad is limited in comparrison. We have a team capable of finishing top 8 true based on the quality of the player the manager has brought in and kept at bargain outlays. Should and will are dangerous concepts though, we are dependent on a lot of factors which i have already mentioned which doesnt happen at other clubs because of thier level of investment and depth in squad. Point being sooner or later it will catch up with us, maybe it already has. There is only so long we can punch above our weight for and Evertonians need to be realistic and see what the manager is working with in comparrison. We've been well spoilt. Its an issue far more fundamental then the team to be honest, its structural and its beginging to affect the footballing side of the club.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

The points I'm making:

1. We don't actually have a young squad, certainly no more so than other teams. As I said, I think the average age of our squad is 27, which is about average in the Premier League.

2. We haven't had an injury crisis.

3. We have experienced players on the bench week in week out, we are not relying on players like Baxter, Duffy and Gueye. Bilyaletdinov, a 9 million signing, can't get a game for us.

4. I don't believe we are punching above our weight at all, we where at one point, but this is a very capable squad.

 

[Brownie]

City and Spurs are comfortably better than us now. I wouldn't expect us to finish above them, but at the same time I'd be very disappointed with anything below 7th.

 

[sotnas]

We are certainly puching under weight, I'd say.

I think some of our results have been horrendous. 3 or 4 weeks ago I was analyzing our season and thinking "we're back on track". With some luck and consistency we'd be very near the 7th place and still hoping for an european spot.

But then, we lost points I would think of. And here we are again. Still waiting for the end of this slow start.

We always start slowly, don't we?

Nevertheless, we do have good players and I think we'll be around the top 10 at the end of the season.

 

[chicoazul]

City and Spurs are comfortably better than us now. I wouldn't expect us to finish above them, but at the same time I'd be very disappointed with anything below 7th.

Pretty much nails it for me, even if the truth is a touch hard.