Nikica Jelavic

[davek]

Shouldn't we be making sure we play to our main goalscorer's strengths? That's what forwards are bought for to win games with goals. Name anybody in the world who would prefer an all round attacker who doesn't score many like di santo, over a tap-in specialist like van nistelrooy?

moyes seems like the guy who'd prefer di santo. There is a reason why jelavic only cost £5.5m, not £30m

Well, I think the answer lies ultimately in the way Moyes likes to play. We can work the ball on the deck at times (mostly down the left), but he's a manager that likes to get the ball back to front asap with those raking long diagonal balls to the edge of the box. That requires a target to aim for and Fellaini is that target this season. He's done it in the past with Cahill and Jelavic prospered off it, so there's no reason why our style of play cant be used by him still if he can adapt to new partners. Maybe he just doesn't like the competition of who is the number one finisher at the club and has become inhibited by it? Who knows, players are human after all. If they think they're not 'the man' anymore then it affects confidence.

Bottom line: I dont like the way we use strikers either: Moyes does expect too much ou of them in terms of overall effort and it does take the edge off them. However, I dont see a massive difference in what Jelavic was asked to do in the 10 games he had with us last season and the games he's played in this season. I just dont think that';s substantial enough of an argument to explain his dramatic drop off in goalscoring and all round play.

 

[Brennan]

I've just used the excellent Everton Results.com and the likes of wikipedia (hence why some figures may be ever so slightly out) to list how many strikers we've had under Moyes and their conversion rate.

Now bear in mind that this list focuses solely on #9's and doesn't include the likes of Steve Watson, Fellaini, Cahill, Donovan, McFadden, Naismith or Kevin Mirallas, who have spent the majority of their Everton career playing elsewhere.

Duncan Ferguson: 20 goals in 102 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 5.
Tommy Radzinski: 20 goals in around about 55 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 2.75.
Nick Chadwick: 6 goals in 17 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 2.8.
Kevin Campbell: 13 in around about 70 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 5.3.
Wayne Rooney: 17 goals in 177 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 4.5.
Brian McBride: 4 goals in 8 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 2.
Francis Jeffers: 2 goals in 22 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 11.
Marcus Bent: 8 goals in 66 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 8.25.
James Beattie: 15 goals in 86 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 5.7.
James Vaughan: 9 goals in 60 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 6.5.
Andy Johnson: 22 goals in 74 appearances, a conversaion rate of 1 in 3.3.
Victor Anichebe: 24 goals in 154 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 6.5.
Yakubu: 33 goals in 107 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 3.2. *

*His first season with us and his sole season with Blackburn yielded a conversion rate of 1 in 1.8, which clearly shows how horribly mismanaged he was since f*cking Blackburn managed to serve him up with a glut of goals.

Louis Saha: 35 goals in 115, appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 3.2.
Jo: 7 goals in 35 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 5.
Jermaine Beckford: 10 goals in 40 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 4.
Apostolis Vellios: 3 goals in 24 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 8.
Denis Straqualursi: 3 goals in 27 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 9.
Nikica Jelavic: 18 goals in 44 appearances, a conversion rate of 1 in 2.4.


Now, of course pure stats don't tell the whole story, because if they did we seemingly dropped an almighty b*llock in letting Brian McBride go...but this list does go some way in telling us where our problems lie.

For a famously settled and close knit first XI in which the likes of Osman, Hibbert, Neville, Howard, Cahill, Arteta, Baines and Jagielka have/had played together for well over 5 years the sheer amount of centre forwards that we've gone through is quite startling, especially considering that we've played with 1 up top for the best part of 8 years.

Including the lads that have had to do a job up front or do play centre forward elsewhere (i.e. Cahill, Naismith, Fellaini, McFadden, Donovan) I count a total of 26 strikers that have been utilised under Moyes in his 11 year tenure, that's over two per season.

As mentioned before, take a starting XI from 2007 and in Howard, Neville, Hibbert, Jagielka, Baines, Osman and Pienaar there's 7 players out of a possible 11 that make our first choice XI to this day, Moyes clearly likes his favourites and of course they've served us brilliantly but the further we get up the pitch the clearer it gets that our play will never suit an out-an-out striker.

It's not like we've had our precious striking talents snatched away from us by those in the upper echelons of World Football either, out of that above list only Wayne Rooney has gone on to bigger and better things...that's one centre forward out of a possible 26 that's been deemed good enough for a stronger club than ours to bid for.

The combination of poor buying (Beattie, Johnson and Yakubu were all club record signings), a lot of dross and a frankly undeniable aversion to playing simply to a strikers strengths continues to cost us, the latest victim in Nikica Jelavic still has a very respectable conversion rate of around 1 in 2 but as has been said in this thread, he's clearly being asked to do a lot more whilst recieving less in return, time shall only tell how he will continue at Everton but I for one am not expecting too much.

STATS.

Clearly a coincidence though that so many of our strikers either have gash conversion rates or 'confidence issues' in their second seasons. Definitely.

 

[Summerskin]

STATS.

Clearly a coincidence though that so many of our strikers either have gash conversion rates or 'confidence issues' in their second seasons. Definitely.

It's totally telling that a starting XI from 2007 practically still has the same keeper, back four and our two most creative players in it though isn't it?

Not a winger or centre forward in sight, we're f*cking allergic to them, unless you count Vic, and it's only taken him about 5 years to reach his potential...

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

STATS.

Clearly a coincidence though that so many of our strikers either have gash conversion rates or 'confidence issues' in their second seasons. Definitely.

& for players like Saha, Rooney, Anichebe & Beattie, the converse is true.

Stats eh.

 

[Brennan]

& for players like Saha, Rooney, Anichebe & Beattie, the converse is true.

Stats eh.

If you work somewhere and one person complains about being bullied by their boss, then you might think it's untrue. If four people in the space of a few years say the same thing, bells start to ring. Just because not all the employees complain doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist.

Moyes plays strikers in a set manner regardless of their abilities. With some of them it works, and with some of them (like Anichebe) they just ignore it. Even when Vic plays on the wing he drifts up front constantly. Then there are some, like Yakubu and Jelavic for whom this doesn't work. The only seasons where Yakubu didn't score a good amount of goals are the three for us after his debut season.

 

[davek]

Is there stats for strikers under Moyes season-by-season, goals per game ratio? I think that'd be the better indicator as to 'the Moyes effect'.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

If you work somewhere and one person complains about being bullied by their boss, then you might think it's untrue. If four people in the space of a few years say the same thing, bells start to ring. Just because not all the employees complain doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist.

Moyes plays strikers in a set manner regardless of their abilities. With some of them it works, and with some of them (like Anichebe) they just ignore it. Even when Vic plays on the wing he drifts up front constantly. Then there are some, like Yakubu and Jelavic for whom this doesn't work. The only seasons where Yakubu didn't score a good amount of goals are the three for us after his debut season.

4 people saying what exactly????

As for Yakubu, he ruptured his ****ing achilles in his 2nd season, & never made it back as our first choice striker. His road to recovery was very long & he looked a shadow of the player he was before it & anyone who watching every week would agree. He had an Indian summer at Blackburn, but no-one wept any tears for him when he left Goodison, as he looked shot & it wasn't Moyes making him look a busted flush!

 

[Summerskin]

Is there stats for strikers under Moyes season-by-season, goals per game ratio? I think that'd be the better indicator as to 'the Moyes effect'.

You can cobble it all together from Wikipedia etc...that's what I did above, be arsed doing it again!

 

[davek]

You can cobble it all together from Wikipedia etc...that's what I did above, be arsed doing it again!

Ha Ha Ha.

Dont blame you.

 

[Brennan]

I think it's interesting though that a player like Saha who was a lot more reluctant to do the leg work that Moyes tries to get his strikers to do was actually one of our most successful.

I often see a lot of shouts that Saha was lazy, and perhaps they're right. But i'd take a lazy striker who scores 1 in 3 over a striker who runs the channels and never puts the ball in the net.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I think it's interesting though that a player like Saha who was a lot more reluctant to do the leg work that Moyes tries to get his strikers to do was actually one of our most successful.

I often see a lot of shouts that Saha was lazy, and perhaps they're right. But i'd take a lazy striker who scores 1 in 3 over a striker who runs the channels and never puts the ball in the net.

Saha was given stick for being lazy for loitering on the edge of the box when he should have been getting into a position that risked him threatening the goal.

How you explain that his 2nd season was by far his best at Goodison btw, given that he should have been ruined by then?

 

[Brennan]

Saha was given stick for being lazy for loitering on the edge of the box when he should have been getting into a position that risked him threatening the goal.

How you explain that his 2nd season was by far his best at Goodison btw, given that he should have been ruined by then?

Point out where i said that Moyes ruins every striker.

Oh yeah, i didn't. Try again lad.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Point out where i said that Moyes ruins every striker.

Oh yeah, i didn't. Try again lad.

Oh right so your theory that he ruins them after a season, only applies to the ones that don't do as well 2nd season & ignores the ones that do better.

 

[Summerskin]

Oh right so your theory that he ruins them after a season, only applies to the ones that don't do as well 2nd season & ignores the ones that do better.

Lad, it's like 1 out of 20 that's bucked the trend.

 

[Brennan]

Oh right so your theory that he ruins them after a season, only applies to the ones that don't do as well 2nd season & ignores the ones that do better.

No. I simply stated that a fair few of our strikers have followed a similar pattern and that we've gone through a load of strikers in 10 years and barely any of them have been a success.