Nick Griffin

[sheeds]

GDP growth does not mean increased prosperity. When the transactions are through coercive force rather than mutual agreement, prosperity is destroyed, not created. That's the failure of socialism. Guns & Tanks != prosperity.

We could have a massive boost in employment and GDP if the government employed 3 million people to dig holes in the ground and fill them back up, but we'd all be materially poorer for it.

That's what happened with communism for 60 years. You had full employment and great GDP numbers year on year, but you still had to queue for 2 hours to by a loaf of bread. Eventually it collapsed in on itself.

That's what I was saying before mate , it was an unsustainable economic policy based on financial slight of hand , massive rearmament and as you say in simplistic terms building roads. These magnificent financial policies without German expansionism would almat certainly been unsustainable in the long term.

 

[EFCNIK]

I'm strongly anti-racist & in many ways a small 'l' liberal but I also feel the concerns of appearing politically correct led the mainstream parties to avoid debates that probably needed to be had which I suspect led to the relative rise in popularity of the likes of the BNP.

There are debates that should probably be had but by the same token his country has a history of sheltering those fleeing tyrany and I'm actually proud of that Be it the 1690 Huguenots , Jews fleeing nazi Germany or Asians expelled by idi Amin . I believe if people are genuinely fleeing oppression then our country should do all it can to help , I'd also welcome anyone who is prepared and able to contribute to our society although despite my ideals I'm uncomfortable with welcoming those that apparently have an agenda against our nation.

Like I say for me the failure to have open and honest discussion panders to extremism .

That's the thing though, the word racism shouldn't even come in to play. We are letting the wrong kind of people in, black white or brown it doesn't matter and our taxpayers are paying for it. The BNP seem to be the only ones who would do something about that which is why they will gain popularity, however unfortunate that may be.

As I've always said, far left stupidly liberal views only feed the far right and vise versa. Liberals think they're doing good but they're only doing harm.

 

[Blue 1]

"Far-left stupidly liberal" is an oxymoron.

 

[sheeds]

That's the thing though, the word racism shouldn't even come in to play. We are letting the wrong kind of people in, black white or brown it doesn't matter and our taxpayers are paying for it. The BNP seem to be the only ones who would do something about that which is why they will gain popularity, however unfortunate that may be.

As I've always said, far left stupidly liberal views only feed the far right and vise versa. Liberals think they're doing good but they're only doing harm.

There is no problem in my mind with liberalism and 'understanding' the issue for me is when people are terrified of having reasoned debate for fear of having the finger pointed at them

 

[EFCNIK]

"Far-left stupidly liberal" is an oxymoron.

FFS buNdz!!

 

[EFCNIK]

There is no problem in my mind with liberalism and 'understanding' the issue for me is when people are terrified of having reasoned debate for fear of having the finger pointed at them

Exactly. Look no further than this very forum with some of the things people accuse me of on here.

 

[steken1]

France and Greece maybe. I think Spain's more recent history of fascism might mean not so there.
We fortunately seem to have an almost inbuilt aversion to it here.

The BNP could have the best PR team in the world but when your party rank-and-file is largely made up of holocaust deniers, pub racists and bootboys the gaffes come rather thick and fast. A neo-nazi party, which is what the BNP is, let's make no bones, will never be a legitimate force in British politics, and more the better.

I think Griffin just hates everyone, and his party is a busted flush and he knows it.

The point is though a skilled PR team would, over a period of time, change the public perception(which is fairly accurate) and a charismatic leader focusing on issues Nik raises daily would be able to garner votes.

They may well have to be a bit subversive about certain issues but I'm certain they could gain some seats if they made subtle changes to how they operate. Undoubtedly they are Nazi's with an intolerance to almost everything different. But seats in the house would mean they give themselves a voice.

I suppose we should just be thankful they are as idiotic as they are.

 

[sheeds]

Got radio 5 on and listening to your call and the comments of listeners on this whole debate , Peter tatchell is involved and I have to say I'm quite impressed by him. Tatchell has basically said he has no problem with griffins views and he has the right under free speech to have whatever beliefs he wants , odious or not but by tweeting the address and calling for 'British justice team' he's clearly crossed the line. I'm also impressed by him saying he'd campaign against discrimination whoever is suffering from it or perpetrating it gay, Christian , Muslim or whatever .

 

[evilwebby]

We need a party who's going to do something about immigration, namely letting the wrong people in I.e people here to commit crime/ use our benefits system. Unfortunatly groups like the BNP and to a lesser extent the EDL stop important issues being spoken about. The liberals and the left just instantly turn their noses up at this issue and accuse everyone of being a racist or in the BNP.

Basically, people, on both sides of the political spectrum, need to get some ****ing common sense.

Mate, I'm devoutly Libertarian (or what used to be called classically Liberal, which is definitely not the same as being a modern day LibDems, which is essentially a progressive movement). I don't consider myself left or right, because I don't see the it that way - all main parties are equally guilty of using the machinery of the State to encroach on our personal freedom.

So I actually agree with the principles of what some of UKIP and the BNP say - eg, repatriate powers and withdraw from EU, or at least have a referendum on it, and protecting the right of inviduals to say "no" because that is their choice, but hand in hand with that goes the "non agression" axiom, and we should withdraw ALL our troops from overseas scale back our foreign policy.

There's no mainstream Libertarian party in the UK today, so it just remains a political ideal that is unrepresented at election time, so I don't vote. I'd urge you to listen to some of what Ron Paul has to say - I think you would agree with much of his views.

 

[sheeds]

Exactly. Look no further than this very forum with some of the things people accuse me of on here.

I've personally not had a pop at you at all but when you say things like (paraphrasing) 'hitler had some great policies' you do kind of open the door to finger pointing mate.

 

[Blue 1]

The point is though a skilled PR team would, over a period of time, change the public perception(which is fairly accurate) and a charismatic leader focusing on issues Nik raises daily would be able to garner votes.

They may well have to be a bit subversive about certain issues but I'm certain they could gain some seats if they made subtle changes to how they operate. Undoubtedly they are Nazi's with an intolerance to almost everything different. But seats in the house would mean they give themselves a voice.

I suppose we should just be thankful they are as idiotic as they are.

UKIP are already doing this. I think they'll do very well out of the right-of-tory vote next time out.

 

[steken1]

UKIP are already doing this. I think they'll do very well out of the right-of-tory vote next time out.

I agree. I think they may well get a lot of voters who wouldn't dream of voting tory, but feel taken advantage of by immigrants and the last labour goverment.

I also think they lack a proper charismatic leader. It took a black man to the presidency of the USA. It's a valuable political commodity.

 

[Blue 1]

I agree. I think they may well get a lot of voters who wouldn't dream of voting tory, but feel taken advantage of by immigrants and the last labour goverment.

I also think they lack a proper charismatic leader. It took a black man to the presidency of the USA. It's a valuable political commodity.

I don't think that'll be where their votes come from.

It'll be from people who think the Tory party has drifted too far to the left (!).

I think they might split the right wing vote much like the SDP did to the left in the '80's.

 

[EFCNIK]

I've personally not had a pop at you at all but when you say things like (paraphrasing) 'hitler had some great policies' you do kind of open the door to finger pointing mate.

He did have some great policies. Namely economic. He was going to 'kick start germany's economy and sort out unemployment'. How the **** do people think he got voted in? If he didn't have good policies, he wouldn't have got in?! Of course when he got in, then his true purpose became apparent, but initially he had to appeal to the german people. I never said he successfully implemented those policies. Any historian will say exactly the same thing. Again, people desperate to point the finger and accuse without really thinking about it.

 

[steken1]

I don't think that'll be where their votes come from.

It'll be from people who think the Tory party has drifted too far to the left (!).

I think they might split the right wing vote much like the SDP did to the left in the '80's.

I think the immigration issue has gone well beyond ordinary party boundaries myself. Especially with the latest ridiculous edicts coming from Brussels. Nobody has seriously addressed the issue in 10-15 years.

UKIP seem like they are willing to do that. What comes with it will be the deal breaker IMO. Uni fee's and and a few populist policies could see them do well.