New Everton Owners: The Friedkin Group

[Armaghtoffee]

You only have to walk down towards Bramley Moore once, take up the surroundings and you can see the massive potential for that area. TFG got the money and the means to realise all that. Really excited for to see how it will all develop over the next few years. Hopefully this club will also be able/allowed to maximise that potential.

It doesn’t take imagination to see what the walk from the Liver Building to Bramley Moore will be ultimately. The precedent is already there with the bus stop that became Liverpool One.

 

[mikel_88]

It’s not really a counter mate, it’s kind of my point, he was the dominating figure at the football club, top to bottom, the job will be done well - but autocratically, but it’s the vacuum that’s created when that key stone eventually leaves as the structure is dependent on it.

I guess I’m overall surprised we are going to put this much faith in him again at this stage of his career in terms of sustainability and longevity. I guess were im concerned is that I don’t see him going beyond another five years here, then I see a vacuum if we go with what seems an autocratic structure. I assumed we would have more of a collaborative, shared and future proofed structure in terms authority, decision making and longevity.

It’s a lot of faith to put in someone to build a structure around someone in their last job in football in the latter what 5 years of their career.

Really we never recovered from him leaving the first time fundamentally.

Yeah must have interviewed very well unless is others sho have also backed him to tfg at the club. Would have made sense if kenwright was here as would have really pushed him forward. But well kust have to trust it and well see what will hapoen

 

[Neiler]

Yes fair points. Let me try and be a bit clearer.

I suppose our decline was really down to our own stupidity. We went for a wholly different style, and probably not a very good manager in Martinez. We then had an ownership in, who developed a completely different approach and radically shifted from the guiding principles he left.

Essentially we flopped under Moyes because of total stupidity. But even with that stupidity, the system he left was still quite resilient.

The argument may be, with better owners, in my view better personnel around the club and more money available the opportunity to maintaince performance should be higher.

I always felt after Moyes, an internal type hire would have made more sense. I know Weir was close to a role who could have been good. I think we might see more strong coaches coming in too. I also wonder if Moyes may "upstairs" but have a role in club building.

The TLDR bit is that we messed up post Moyes, because BK/FM were inept. I think TFG are far more astute than them, and indeed may be more astute than a lot of their peers.

We made some bad decisions for sure, but he was gone three years before we even got to Koeman. I think what it showed is it’s just very hard to appoint a manager after loosing someone of Moyes’s high level of competency, you become dependent on it. I said after he left, I thought we’d be relegated within 10 years, thankfully I was wrong but only by a mouse hair.

I think given the resources at the club it could have only really have gone one way to be honest, we’ve gotten worse practically every year he’s not been here.

Moyes is just very, very good.

It’s like Villa with Emery now, Utd after Ferguson, Arsenal after Wenger - if you go for an autocratic structure - with someone with a high level of competency - you will have success, however you can fall of a cliff due to the dependency when they eventually go, with that type of structure.

Which as I say given, he’s in the latter stages of his career and this will be his last job in football I think it’s a huge amount of faith we’re putting in him and I suppose the wisdom of that is debatable in terms of sustainability going in to the long term - if we commit this structure and it seems we are.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

We made some bad decisions for sure, but he was gone three years before we even got to Koeman. I think what it showed is it’s just very hard to appoint a manager after loosing someone of Moyes’s high level of competency, you become dependent on it. I said after he left, I thought we’d be relegated within 10 years, thankfully I was wrong but only by a mouse hair.

I think given the resources at the club it could have only really have gone one way to be honest, we’ve gotten worse practically every year he’s not been here.

Moyes is just very, very good.

It’s like Villa with Emery now, Utd after Ferguson, Arsenal after Wenger - if you go for an autocratic structure - with someone with a high level of competency - you will have success, however you can fall of a cliff due to the dependency when they eventually go, with that type of structure.

Which as I say given, he’s in the latter stages of his career and this will be his last job in football I think it’s a huge amount of faith we’re putting in him and I suppose the wisdom of that is debatable in terms of sustainability going in to the long term - if we commit this structure and it seems we are.

That's why I asked earlier today if TFG might have plans to keep him at the club in some sort of DOF role, other capacity? Personally really don't think we should keep him on as our manager when his current contract ends

 

[Neiler]

That's why I asked earlier today if TFG might have plans to keep him at the club in some sort of DOF role, other capacity? Personally really don't think we should keep him on as our manager when his current contract ends

I think he moves upstairs in some technical capacity mate. I think he will give it five years and call it a day, I’m pretty sure he’s going to be successful.

But i guess my overall point is, what happens next, it’s a 3-5 year timeline, the structure is putting him in a key stone alpha position, when you remove the keystone, the whole structure goes into chaos.

Maybe he appoints the next manager and Shepards them……..had nice words for Leighton this afternoon - an internal groomed appointment like Catcher says.

 

[jpr]

I don't really care about Thelwell going, although I don't subscribe to the idea that he was terrible. I think it's exceptionally difficult to tell given the circumstances. I'm also not opposed to having a system that differs from the DoF model either. What I am opposed to is a system that affords too much power to the incumbent manager, no matter who that is. That leads to the sort of issues we've been dealing with for the past few years. There needs to be someone, or some group of people, who are in charge of recruitment with the long term sustainability of the squad as their goal, not acquiescing to the whims of the manager of the day.

Managers come and managers go, when they go we shouldn't be looking at complete rebuilds every time. We've all seen the madness that results from that approach. We should decide what sort of football we want to play and then everything should be geared around that. Recruitment of managers, recruitment of players, age group football, everything, all serving that central mission. In my opinion, it's the only way to have stability and, hopefully, progress at a football club in the modern era. No more flitting from tiki taki to hoofball and back again. That starts above the manager.

Just signing good players takes care of that predominantly. People tying themselves in knots over style of play etc gets you a mid table team over time unless you are Barcelona.

Theres a few guiding principles for the type of player that succeeds at Everton and that should be in the mix when recruiting but no one has demonstrated they know that better than Moyes

 

[jpr]

My concern is less about individual stuff mate, he will do a brilliant job. It’s more if you make one person being the key stone of the structure, will that structure fall of a cliff when the key stone goes, he’s 61.

Who says they are doing that? They ve appointed a new CEO an U21s manager and linked to a head Scout so far. Their announcement today suggests there will be some football executives announced shortly

 

[Dutch Toffee]

I think he moves upstairs in some technical capacity mate. I think he will give it five years and call it a day, I’m pretty sure he’s going to be successful.

But i guess my overall point is, what happens next, it’s a 3-5 year timeline, the structure is putting him in a key stone alpha position, when you remove the keystone, the whole structure goes into chaos.

Maybe he appoints the next manager and Shepards them……..had nice words for Leighton this afternoon - an internal groomed appointment like Catcher says.

Oh, I definitely do agree with you. Moyes is very good as his job, and we tremendousely suffered after he left. Also for a huge part down to the ineptitude of the Moshiri led era ofc. Hopefully TFG have a plan for life after Moyes. Him moulding Baines into that life line after him, would be great imo.

 

[Neiler]

Who says they are doing that? They ve appointed a new CEO an U21s manager and linked to a head Scout so far. Their announcement today suggests there will be some football executives announced shortly

How is that different to the structure the last time he was here.

Paddy Boyland has reported this evening it’s going to be Moyes and the CEO in authority. They will appoint a head of football operations to support Moyes - who essentially is who all the operational lids Thelwel appointed will send their annual leave requests to.

 

[RinkyDinker]

Yes fair points. Let me try and be a bit clearer.

I suppose our decline was really down to our own stupidity. We went for a wholly different style, and probably not a very good manager in Martinez. We then had an ownership in, who developed a completely different approach and radically shifted from the guiding principles he left.

Essentially we flopped under Moyes because of total stupidity. But even with that stupidity, the system he left was still quite resilient.

The argument may be, with better owners, in my view better personnel around the club and more money available the opportunity to maintaince performance should be higher.

I always felt after Moyes, an internal type hire would have made more sense. I know Weir was close to a role who could have been good. I think we might see more strong coaches coming in too. I also wonder if Moyes may "upstairs" but have a role in club building.

The TLDR bit is that we messed up post Moyes, because BK/FM were inept. I think TFG are far more astute than them, and indeed may be more astute than a lot of their peers.

We’ll have none of that common sense in here fella, pack it in!

 

[jpr]

How is that different to the structure the last time he was here.

Paddy Boyland has reported this evening it’s going to be Moyes and the CEO in authority. They will appoint a head of football operations to support Moyes - who essentially is who all the operational lids Thelwel appointed will send their annual leave requests to.

It’s completely unrealistic to appoint a whole organisational structure in 1 go, never mind when you need a massive squad over- haul and brand new owners. Moyes is the ‘anchor‘ to start the revolution, exactly as described. Then over the next couple of years they will identify the right structure that works for Everton and appoint quality people into those positions and the whole set up will evolve.

If we didn’t have the luxury of someone as experienced and competent as Moyes then it would be a different story and we d be stepping into the unknown of trusting a random DOF and coach to come in and build up a relationship and understand what the club needs in about 3 weeks for the biggest summer in recent history

 

[Neiler]

It’s completely unrealistic to appoint a whole organisational structure in 1 go, never mind when you need a massive squad over- haul and brand new owners. Moyes is the ‘anchor‘ to start the revolution, exactly as described. Then over the next couple of years they will identify the right structure that works for Everton and appoint quality people into those positions and the whole set up will evolve.

If we didn’t have the luxury of someone as experienced and competent as Moyes then it would be a different story and we d be stepping into the unknown of trusting a random DOF and coach to come in and build up a relationship and understand what the club needs in about 3 weeks for the biggest summer in recent history

Not sure I agree with you there mate. I’m not sure what you are expecting in terms of structure - there will be satellite support appointments, but this is it.

It’s completely not unrealistic to have an organisational structure in place in fact it’s vital we do, this is our operational structure. Moyes and the CEO, there will be a head of operations and head or recruitment but both will be satellites to Moyes and the CEO.

Moyes will do a wonderful job, that’s not the point I’ve been making.

Let me put it this way, take Gareth Barry he came here at what 33….we weren’t making him the cornerstone of the team over a 15 year period as awesome as he was. Moyes is now Gareth Barry in managerial longevity terms.

 

[WA Toffee]

Not sure I agree with you there mate. I’m not sure what you are expecting in terms of structure - there will be satellite support appointments, but this is it.

It’s completely not unrealistic to have an organisational structure in place in fact it’s vital we do, this is our operational structure. Moyes and the CEO, there will be a head of operations and head or recruitment but both will be satellites to Moyes and the CEO.

Moyes will do a wonderful job, that’s not the point I’ve been making.

Let me put it this way, take Gareth Barry he came here at what 33….we weren’t making him the cornerstone of the team over a 15 year period as awesome as he was. Moyes is now Gareth Barry in managerial longevity terms.

What is the structure you think we have, and how does Moyes as an individual hold it all together?

And what structure would you rather see in place?

 

[Exeter_Gently]

It’s completely unrealistic to appoint a whole organisational structure in 1 go, never mind when you need a massive squad over- haul and brand new owners. Moyes is the ‘anchor‘ to start the revolution, exactly as described. Then over the next couple of years they will identify the right structure that works for Everton and appoint quality people into those positions and the whole set up will evolve.

If we didn’t have the luxury of someone as experienced and competent as Moyes then it would be a different story and we d be stepping into the unknown of trusting a random DOF and coach to come in and build up a relationship and understand what the club needs in about 3 weeks for the biggest summer in recent history

Well put,Kind Sir.

 

[Neiler]

What is the structure you think we have, and how does Moyes as an individual hold it all together?

And what structure would you rather see in place?

The structure will be this in the football Dept - there will be a CEO, Moyes, a head of football operations and head of recruitment. The first two are self explanatory and the other two will be satellites to the first two.

The head of football operations will manage operationally the likes of S&C, medical and Allied Heath, Performance Data etc. etc. Head of recruitment will operationally manage the scouting network, player data, loan management etc.

All four will operationally are likely to have an input operationally in the terms of future planning and recruitment etc - but with overall authority going to Moyes and the CEO - with checks and balance at board level.

If im being completely honest, i do probably prefer that autocratic structure overall as opposed to a DOF model - which as a structure in this organization culturally has never worked, the point ive been making however is a critique of the autocratic operation model we've gone for - it is dependent on the competency of the keystone individual involved - Moyes in this case - but that dependency creates risks in transition when you loose your manager and Moyes is in the twilight of his career. Therefore i do think we have shown a huge amount of surprising faith in him and the structure in terms of sustainability and longevity going into the future.

It will be very hard to transition in 3-5 years time away from Moyes as a key stone of the structure.

Im surprised we've gone this way.

I think we are trying to do with Moyes what Villa did with Emery. Hes in total control at Villa and its borne fruit. But again its where do Villa go after Emery, like where do everton go after Moyes.