New European super league

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Layne said:
No English team in their right mind would risk the amount of money they get now on a project that just helps the other european countries compete.
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This is why whenever these rumors come up it is always clubs like Bayern and Juve who are supposedly spearheading the Super League. Because they know they can't touch the level of money that the English clubs make if they don't get them out of the Prem.
 
tommytowne said:
Standing by my gut reaction every time this comes up.
Let them go. Start up a new competition here with us as founder members.
Juventus v Man Utd. on a regular basis will soon lose its attraction.
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While i agree in principal 100%, what would happen to us re:finances?
TV Money is a big % of the money we make and a reason why we pay out certain wages, if in 4 years time players on big contracts are still at the club, we would stand to lose a hell of a lot! Could we cope financially?
 
BillLovesRoo said:
While i agree in principal 100%, what would happen to us re:finances?
TV Money is a big % of the money we make and a reason why we pay out certain wages, if in 4 years time players on big contracts are still at the club, we would stand to lose a hell of a lot! Could we cope financially?
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With regards wage costs, the type of player available (in other words those not in this proposed new league) will be affordable. A wake up call for all, including players and their parasitic agents, will mean plenty of availability of decent players.
I personally relish the thought of a revitalised National Premier League without the prima donnas using the current system as a stepping stone to Barca and Real. Attendances will flourish due to the fact that there will be travelling fans in their hordes. Unlike the lesser numbers from abroad who will soon tire of border controls due to Brexit. (Tongue in cheek that last bit)
 
The only way English clubs join is if it’s like another cup/league competition they won’t risk there golden goose to start a new league
 
www.nytimes.com

Proposal to Restructure Champions League Leaves Out Most of Europe (Published 2019)

A proposal being pushed by some of Europe’s richest clubs would effectively seal off the Champions League, leaving as few as four of its 32 spots for teams from Europe’s 55 national leagues.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com


Proposal to Restructure Champions League Leaves Out Most of Europe

Small clubs like Ajax would find it extremely difficult to play their way into the Champions League under a proposal being pushed by Europe’s richest teams.

Small clubs like Ajax would find it extremely difficult to play their way into the Champions League under a proposal being pushed by Europe’s richest teams.CreditCreditOlaf Kraak/EPA, via Shutterstock
By Tariq PanjaIt was the rarest of feats in modern European soccer: Ajax Amsterdam, a proud club from the Dutch league, battling its way past giants like Real Madrid and Juventus to the cusp of a place in the Champions League final.

Ajax’s journey, which began in the summer qualifying rounds and was ended by an injury-time goal in the semifinals on Wednesday, was the kind of puncher’s chance that every small club dreams of in the Champions League. But it is unlikely to be repeated if concrete proposals for the future of European soccer drawn by the continent’s governing body and its richest clubs come to fruition.
While officials from the continent’s biggest clubs and UEFA, which governs the sport in Europe and organizes the Champions League, have suggested there is a suite of options on the table, documents obtained by The New York Times outline only one developed plan. If approved, it would calcify the Champions League into a competition dominated by a small group of elite clubs, and leave as few as four of its 32 places available for teams from Europe’s 55 national leagues.

Discussions over the proposed changes have proved controversial, pitting national leagues — led by England’s Premier League, Spain’s La Liga and competitions in Germany and France — against some of their own members. But the documents reviewed by The Times, the product of a project that appears to have been in the works for more than a year, present a more formidable threat to domestic leagues and most clubs than previously known.

If approved, they would result in a Champions League that could render national competitions nearly irrelevant, impose significant barriers to entry to teams outside the game’s current elite and deepen the divide between the two dozen richest clubs and the hundreds of others that make up the bulk of the European game.
Officials from the domestic leagues were shown the proposal for restructured European competitions this week.

The new tournaments would, starting in 2024, allow the top 21 teams in a 32-team Champions League to qualify automatically for the next season’s event, effectively guaranteeing them annual participation and tens of millions of dollars more in broadcasting revenue than their domestic rivals. Those rivals would most likely be unable to match the rich clubs’ spending power, and would find it prohibitively difficult to play their way into the Champions League on the field.

The biggest clubs, notably those from Spain and Italy, are pushing the proposals the hardest, according to people familiar with the discussions. They argue the changes are needed to provide more fiscal certainty year after year.

UEFA has been in talks about proposals for months with the European Club Association, a group that is led by Juventus’s chairman, Andrea Agnelli, and that is driving the campaign for an elite competition. UEFA belatedly met representatives of Europe’s leagues on Wednesday. After the meeting, Aleksander Ceferin, the UEFA president, said “at the moment we have only ideas and opinions.”

Some leaders of European leagues present did not accept that description, pointing out that only one proposal was presented — a formal one with charts and graphics that was created without input from the leagues. The Spanish league president Javier Tebas, a vocal critic of the plans, said after the meeting that the plans were so developed there appeared to be little room for negotiation.
“We cannot accept that these are just plans and proposals for an open discussion with stakeholders about the future of professional football,” Tebas told The Times. “In reality, we were presented with a concrete project developed by UEFA in full cooperation with a small group of rich and powerful European clubs to reform European club competitions after 2024 in a format that could destroy domestic competitions and the sporting and financial sustainability of the vast majority of clubs in Europe.

“We are open for a constructive dialogue to reform European football together with other stakeholders, but if this is the project on the table, then the margins for negotiations are very limited.”
While the Champions League’s main competition will continue to be the 32-team event it is today, UEFA envisages substantial changes to its format to ensure a longer group stage in which teams would play in four groups of eight, with the top four teams qualifying for the knockout stages. Such a setup would create dozens more matchups of elite clubs to sell to broadcasters, perhaps including on weekend dates traditionally reserved for domestic league play.

Champions from lower-profile leagues like the Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal and most of Eastern Europe, as well as elite-league clubs outside the top four or five spots in their domestic competitions, would be relegated to a 32-team second-tier competition, and to a third division with 64 teams. Teams would be eligible to be promoted and relegated among the three divisions, but the financial resources available to those at the top could create a competitive advantage that might secure their places in the Champions League for the foreseeable future. Only four of the 32 places would be reserved for incoming clubs each season.
Leaders of Europe’s domestic leagues fear the changes could reduce their competitions to fourth-tier afterthoughts behind the three European competitions, while small- and medium-size clubs have expressed concern that their fans would no longer have the chance to dream of even competing against the continent’s biggest clubs for Europe’s biggest prizes.

“The objective of football is to give happiness to fans, and to give happiness is to have a chance of winning,” said Bernard Caiazzo, the owner of the French team St.-Étienne.
The uncertainty already has prevented some teams from securing outside investment, according to Caiazzo. His club, once a power in European competition, had been in talks with minority investors who have now cooled on buying a minority stake, he said.

St.-Étienne has a storied past, having won 10 French championships during a heyday that ended with its last league title in 1981. In recent years, it has found itself among the also-rans in France’s Ligue 1, as first Lyon and now Paris St.-Germain — a club whose rise has been financed by seemingly endless infusions of cash from its Qatari owners — have dominated French soccer.
He said he worried the proposed Champions League overhaul would leave new owners with no reason to invest.
“Of course, these investors, new investors, will consider if we close the system that of course they could suddenly be outside,”
Caiaazo said.
 
atrottel said:
Just to act as devil's advocate here, how about the NFL/NBA/MLB then? (Or even, at the other end of the financial scale, county cricket.)

I think, as a fan of an historic English club, it would be one of the worst things for my sport. (I severely doubt that I will see it in my lifetime though.)

However, as we know the owners don't care about such as us. I'm sure that some of the top club owners, especially the Yanks, have visions of a European league franchise where, eventually, Paris will be playing Barcelona to get into a World Championship playoff against one of the Chinese and US franchise champions, who will now be competitive because they have the money and every player wants to play for a 'top club'.

The problem with the NFL is that it has proved almost impossible to export. Soccerball, however, they see as ripe for a nepotistic takeover where they can control the sport and pull the drawbridge up after them. A good example of the kind of changes unregulated corporate capitalism brings can be seen in Formula One and the World Cup selection processes.
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I mean this post is all over the place, and makes good points and some I find to be completely wrong. Americans that like football, like the current structure, promotion, relegation, and aggregates. Bordeline fans either like how it is different than our sports, or don't like the lack of a one game knockout.

The expansion of the World Cup is not an American idea at all. It benefits the smaller countries, and trying to suck more money out of them by drawing them into a competition they've never qualified for. That's a UEFA who runs FIFA move in my opinion. How many Americans are high up in FIFA? They got Qatar the WC. It's just a bunch of corrupt Europeans, and men from smaller countries looking to extract more money in that regard.
 
Yank said:
I mean this post is all over the place, and makes good points and some I find to be completely wrong. Americans that like football, like the current structure, promotion, relegation, and aggregates. Bordeline fans either like how it is different than our sports, or don't like the lack of a one game knockout.

The expansion of the World Cup is not an American idea at all. It benefits the smaller countries, and trying to suck more money out of them by drawing them into a competition they've never qualified for. That's a UEFA who runs FIFA move in my opinion. How many Americans are high up in FIFA? They got Qatar the WC. It's just a bunch of corrupt Europeans, and men from smaller countries looking to extract more money in that regard.
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I agree with you that it is not an idea mainly driven by Americans, since the owners and the money come from all over the world. But I think the concept of American sports, where you own a franchise and you use that franchise to extract public money (stadium, tax rebates, etc.) and increase the value of your investment with zero prospect of you losing it, is the dream that they are looking at for football.

The World Cup is one thing (national teams) but a World Club Championship (that I was talking about) is what I saw as the logical extension of what the money-men behind these ideas are aiming at. You can see the initial steps from the Champions League and Europa League proposals.

You mention 'Americans that like football' - sure, there are football supporters over there the same as they are over here (although perhaps not with the history and the background that makes people object so much to these ideas in Europe). The problem is that the match-going supporters in any country are mostly irrelevant to the people that control clubs apart from providing an aural and visual backdrop (and that is being manipulated these days by piped-in fan noise - see Atlanta Falcons, for example).

The money comes from TV rights and sponsorship and they are global. If you plan on moving your league games to another country (see ideas from Spain and Premier League) how much of a step is it to move a 'franchise' to another country. If you can get a 100,000 stadium full in Beijing or with global TV rights then why not move Chelsea there once there is a World Club Champions League? Especially when there are limited 'franchise spaces' allotted to certain countries. See San Diego Chargers, LA Raiders, Baltimore Colts, etc. etc.
 
I would say that it would be better to first make some regional leagues if they want to compete with Premier League's tv revenues. Would it be to weird if Spanish and Portuguese leagues merge?

On the other side, you can retain some national big 5 leagues by just moving few teams to another league (like best Welsh clubs did). Imagine if PSG joined PL. French league could use some leveling.
 
NEWSWEETTOFFEE said:
I would say that it would be better to first make some regional leagues if they want to compete with Premier League's tv revenues. Would it be to weird if Spanish and Portuguese leagues merge?

On the other side, you can retain some national big 5 leagues by just moving few teams to another league (like best Welsh clubs did). Imagine if PSG joined PL. French league could use some leveling.
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The EU against Rule Britannia.
 
Would love it if they cut off the big 6. Any European league would die a death due to repetition of fixtures whilst the premier league would continue to be even better and be a true competition again. All the things that attracted the tv companies in the first place, unpredictability, fan passion, full stadiums, different playing styles, would all be there without the boring top 6 cartel smashing everyone every week.
 
The European super league is not gonna happen, I think that once the Europa League 2 comes into effect in 21-22 season, we will see the top European countries getting more champions league places and the lower ranked counties having to go through more qualification so at the moment; Spain, Germany, England and Italy all get 4 places. I think this will go up to 5 places, which will mean 20 out of the 32 teams will come from these 4 nations
 
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