2019/20 Moise Kean

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JAYMULL

Player Valuation: £5m
Amazes me how someone like him and there are lots of them can earn a living out of the game.Looks like hes never played football in his life.
 

Little Ralphy

Player Valuation: £10m
Well this is the Kean thread and if you're writing off Kean now I think you're missing a lot of what matters. Goals don't just happen. There are things that you have to do to score them consistently. It doesn't mean you will always score though. Even good strikers blow hot and cold as far as when they actually score the goals usually. If you score 8 in 5 games and none for the next 11 it is still 1 in 2. The players who don't have streaks to when they score don't play for Everton.

People seem to think because they see Kean come on he is then getting enough of a chance to do more. The reality is he hasn't started since we played Newcastle, a game he scored in, and he has only played more than 20 minutes off the bench in 3 appearances since then. In one of those he assisted the winner and the other two were both games where we got utterly battered and no one played well.

This isn't really just aimed at you as the more general prevailing wisdom around here which seems to be we should cut our losses. It is the dumbest thing we've adopted as a good idea among a majority of the fan base in awhile. Patience folks. Honestly if you want to see anything great from Everton again, you'll probably need it.
Please tell me that's not the miss hit shot against Watford?

Just for the record people said this about Calvert-Lewin for 3 straight seasons and regardless of exactly how good you think he is now there is no argument that he isn't PL quality.
DCL was always showing signs in the rest of his game that he had potential, Kean has shown nothing to suggest he has the potential to make it at the top level. He looks lost most of the time when he comes on, and barely looks like he has the ball under control at others. Personally I'd give him a bit more time given he's young and in a new country with a struggling side, but people need to lay off the 'he's better than DCL' shouts, cos he's anything but. Kean has shown nothing bar the Newcastle appearance to suggest he even deserves a place on the bench, he literally does nothing when he comes on. He's taken that same shot from outside the box that rolls to the keeper in a load of games now. Maybe he doesn't have the mentality for top level football.
 

TheBigIguana

Player Valuation: £70m
Please tell me that's not the miss hit shot against Watford?



DCL was always showing signs in the rest of his game that he had potential, Kean has shown nothing to suggest he has the potential to make it at the top level. He looks lost most of the time when he comes on, and barely looks like he has the ball under control at others. Personally I'd give him a bit more time given he's young and in a new country with a struggling side, but people need to lay off the 'he's better than DCL' shouts, cos he's anything but. Kean has shown nothing bar the Newcastle appearance to suggest he even deserves a place on the bench, he literally does nothing when he comes on. He's taken that same shot from outside the box that rolls to the keeper in a load of games now. Maybe he doesn't have the mentality for top level football.
This is revisionist history. I understand DCL had better hold up play and what not but there where very few people who thought that would translate into him being good enough right up until about this January. Acting like suddenly we knew what we had the whole time and Kean could never measure up to the great prospect that Calvert-Lewin was is just not on. We need to be just as patient and see what happens when he gets a proper run of games.
 

Little Ralphy

Player Valuation: £10m
This is revisionist history. I understand DCL had better hold up play and what not but there where very few people who thought that would translate into him being good enough right up until about this January. Acting like suddenly we knew what we had the whole time and Kean could never measure up to the great prospect that Calvert-Lewin was is just not on. We need to be just as patient and see what happens when he gets a proper run of games.
What a load of crap, spin it anyway you want to support a player not good enough, but me personally I've always rated DCL as have many others, so don't start making out that no one saw this cos a lot of us did.
 
This is revisionist history. I understand DCL had better hold up play and what not but there where very few people who thought that would translate into him being good enough right up until about this January. Acting like suddenly we knew what we had the whole time and Kean could never measure up to the great prospect that Calvert-Lewin was is just not on. We need to be just as patient and see what happens when he gets a proper run of games.
I see you rating him and I lose hope he will make it here.
 

TheBigIguana

Player Valuation: £70m
What a load of crap, spin it anyway you want to support a player not good enough, but me personally I've always rated DCL as have many others, so don't start making out that no one saw this cos a lot of us did.
I'll take your word for it, but the prevailing sentiment on here was, and to some degree still is, that DCL isn't good enough but then people also want to come in here and talk about how DCL showed more than Kean when he started out. It's not really true just on the basis of how little Kean has played and the fact that people want to talk about nothing but goal totals. Kean scores Thursday and he is straight away scoring more frequently than Dom at the same age. It isn't time to give up.
 

Little Ralphy

Player Valuation: £10m
I'll take your word for it, but the prevailing sentiment on here was, and to some degree still is, that DCL isn't good enough but then people also want to come in here and talk about how DCL showed more than Kean when he started out. It's not really true just on the basis of how little Kean has played and the fact that people want to talk about nothing but goal totals. Kean scores Thursday and he is straight away scoring more frequently than Dom at the same age. It isn't time to give up.
Fair enough, but I don't think he has enough in his all round game to be a success here. If he was a pure goal scorer that offered nothing else then fair enough but he doesn't look like that kind of player either. He's not a player to hold the ball up and bring others in to play, he doesn't make intelligent runs and just not receive the ball and you think ah well but he was there, it'll come. Even when on the ball he offers very little, if he was as quick and dynamic as we hoped then you'd at least expect him to look half decent when he has the ball and get people off their seats. He doesn't appear to have any aerial ability either, what is it that you can see in him? Genuine question.

I really hope to be proved wrong on him as we need a good player, but it's looking less and less likely with each game he plays. It should be the other way around. You can argue he's not been given a chance but he's still played over 900 minutes, granted a lot of that as a sub, but even then at times he's had a decent time on the pitch. Bar one decent performance he's looked lost.

There has to come a time when the expectation of possible potential turns to reality. I'd start him in the remaining games if it were me just to see what he's like and if he deserves a chance next season, but I'm not holding on to any hope.
 

TheBigIguana

Player Valuation: £70m
Fair enough, but I don't think he has enough in his all round game to be a success here. If he was a pure goal scorer that offered nothing else then fair enough but he doesn't look like that kind of player either. He's not a player to hold the ball up and bring others in to play, he doesn't make intelligent runs and just not receive the ball and you think ah well but he was there, it'll come. Even when on the ball he offers very little, if he was as quick and dynamic as we hoped then you'd at least expect him to look half decent when he has the ball and get people off their seats. He doesn't appear to have any aerial ability either, what is it that you can see in him? Genuine question.

I really hope to be proved wrong on him as we need a good player, but it's looking less and less likely with each game he plays. It should be the other way around. You can argue he's not been given a chance but he's still played over 900 minutes, granted a lot of that as a sub, but even then at times he's had a decent time on the pitch. Bar one decent performance he's looked lost.

There has to come a time when the expectation of possible potential turns to reality. I'd start him in the remaining games if it were me just to see what he's like and if he deserves a chance next season, but I'm not holding on to any hope.
He's not even played 700 minutes in the league, that's what I go off of mostly when we aren't in Europe as the cups are all a bit weird regarding quality of opponent and how much each team is actually trying. But even then the 700 minutes is a bit misleading because something like 2 or 3 hundred of those came from games where he had sub appearances of 20 or less minutes. It is hard to be effective in that kind of situation imo. He also has only 5 starts and they're separated into two in September, one in late December and one in late January. So to me this idea that he's gotten a real chance is kind of a stretch. It hasn't been set up well for him so far.

On the what do I see with him part the answer is basically everything but consistent hold up play and actually putting chances away. But unless he's the worst finisher ever I think he will start to put them away if he keeps playing. The other part who knows, but Lukaku is an example of someone who never really developed the hold up game and I think that went fine.

You've said you don't really see him as being good on the ball and that is something I think is just objectively wrong. He's got very good dribbling stats, whether you believe in that stuff or not, to the point that people I think are suggesting he play wide simply because of it. But he isn't a wide player and that dribbling ability is very useful in terms of him getting shots away from decent areas.

Honestly I believe the entire "Kean isn't good" campaign relies on two things. One is that he hasn't quite had it as a finisher. But again there is reason to think that won't last forever. The other is that he looks "lost" or whatever out there but as none of us are professional footballers I find it hard to say we know better how to move. For me the way he gets on things and gets the ball into dangerous spots suggests he has at least a passing understanding of what he is doing.
 
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