Messi "best player of all time"

[FC sexy xxx]

People with an anti Messi agenda are perverts who shouldn’t be trusted around dogs.

 

[Ihaters]

Looking at the goal scoring stats of Messi and Ronaldo in La Liga it's obviously not...

Can't beat a good cultured defender. Sammer, Baresi, Martina etc.

I dont really agree with it being easier to breakup beautiful football than it is to create it though.

The benefit that attackers have is that they can make mistakes. If Messi misses a sitter in the 5th minute it's ok as he has another 85 minutes to rectify it. He could play crap for 80 minutes and then score a hat trick in the other ten minutes and ends up having a great game. If a defender messes up just once in a game it results in them not having a good game.

Attacker leaps 3 ft in the air, trapping a 30 yard ball over the should, on the run, skips round 3 players, 1-1 with a team mate, pirouette around another opponent, reaches a defender who puts his foot out and dings the ball away...
Defender > Attacker.

Easier defending than attacking. When you are defending, just hitting the ball is enough to do your job acceptably. A striker needs to find space, control a pass, often beat a player whilst being closed down by defenders, then got a shot away that can beat a keeper...He's still classed as a donkey if he misses.

 

[Papa Shango]

Attacker leaps 3 ft in the air, trapping a 30 yard ball over the should, on the run, skips round 3 players, 1-1 with a team mate, pirouette around another opponent, reaches a defender who puts his foot out and dings the ball away...
Defender > Attacker.

Easier defending than attacking. When you are defending, just hitting the ball is enough to do your job acceptably. A striker needs to find space, control a pass, often beat a player whilst being closed down by defenders, then got a shot away that can beat a keeper...He's still classed as a donkey if he misses.

This depends on if you think a defender should just get a touch on a ball and that's it.

Positioning, how you gel with your team mates etc are all important in defence. This is why managers tend to be wary of changing defensive partnerships.

I rate both as being important but the fact that some people just assume that defending is somehow easier annoys me. A proper quality defender is a beautiful thing.

 

[Little Ralphy]

This depends on if you think a defender should just get a touch on a ball and that's it.

Positioning, how you gel with your team mates etc are all important in defence. This is why managers tend to be wary of changing defensive partnerships.

I rate both as being important but the fact that some people just assume that defending is somehow easier annoys me. A proper quality defender is a beautiful thing.

It's the reason why attackers get paid the most and usually why a lot of Pro defenders started out in other areas of the pitch and moved back over time.

Defending is an art form especially nowadays when you can barely touch an attacker, but it's defo easier.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I didn't say they were the same as the hat-trick vs Spain, but let's not pretend Messi isn't capable of match winning heroics on that level either. He destroys the top English sides repeatedly when playing them and has scored some of the best goals ever and in finals. The quality of Ronaldo's hat-trick was really solely down to his late free kick and the other 2 goals made it seem far better than it actually was. But Messi can easily match those moments which he has proved time after time.

Argentina just haven't been very good over the last decade and been poorly managed at times as well. Dybala not getting a chance this time for example.

Not aimed at you specifically but Ronaldo is seen in the same category as Messi by many when it's goal scoring that is the main reason. He's played 152 more games in his career than Messi, and is only ahead by 33 goals. In a comparable number of games, Messi is far superior and you only have to look at the assists record to see the more well rounded player.

Which level, International level, against top opposition? Or the Barca side built around him, which had Inesta and Xavi etc.

Argentina have had some great players over the last decade, you could argue it's the managers, but surely if Messi was this great 'team player' everyone claims him to be he could have lifted those players to World Cup glory, like Maradona did with a much less talented side.

Depends what you mean by well rounded really, well rounded technically? Cos Ronaldo beats him aerially, and is far less reliant on one foot. Physically Ronaldo has the edge as well. He has also done it with 2, soon to be 3 different club sides, in 3 different leagues. He'll always get plaudits for that. Pele says some daft things but there was an element of truth in what he said about Messi.

Personally I think Ronaldo (Brazilian one) is miles ahead of both, as is Maradona. It's becoming easier and easier for dribblers to look good, because defenders can't touch them without being booked. This is why you can't really compare players over different eras. I'm also sceptical of players who play 'in the hole' or just off the forward line, as it's an easier game than for someone who plays as the main striker like Ronaldo did, or Pele did for that matter.

 

[FC sexy xxx]

Which level, International level, against top opposition? Or the Barca side built around him, which had Inesta and Xavi etc.

Argentina have had some great players over the last decade, you could argue it's the managers, but surely if Messi was this great 'team player' everyone claims him to be he could have lifted those players to World Cup glory, like Maradona did with a much less talented side.

Depends what you mean by well rounded really, well rounded technically? Cos Ronaldo beats him aerially, and is far less reliant on one foot. Physically Ronaldo has the edge as well. He has also done it with 2, soon to be 3 different club sides, in 3 different leagues. He'll always get plaudits for that. Pele says some daft things but there was an element of truth in what he said about Messi.

Personally I think Ronaldo (Brazilian one) is miles ahead of both, as is Maradona. It's becoming easier and easier for dribblers to look good, because defenders can't touch them without being booked. This is why you can't really compare players over different eras. I'm also sceptical of players who play 'in the hole' or just off the forward line, as it's an easier game than for someone who plays as the main striker like Ronaldo did, or Pele did for that matter.

You do realise it was Guardiola who replaced Ronaldinho for Messi and that’s what kicked off the successful period ? Built around is a stretch as he has and still does play multiple positions.

 

[Little Ralphy]

You do realise it was Guardiola who replaced Ronaldinho for Messi and that’s what kicked off the successful period ? Built around is a stretch as he has and still does play multiple positions.

Not really sure what your point is there, they won the Champions League in 2006 with Rykaard - Ronaldinho, Iniesta and Xavi.

 

[FC sexy xxx]

Not really sure what your point is there, they won the Champions League in 2006 with Rykaard - Ronaldinho, Iniesta and Xavi.

Yeah and then he got sacked when they finished 3rd , Guardiola changed things around a bit and created arguably the best team in club football. Messi elevated Barca to another level . Anyone who thinks different is either clueless or has some weird agenda .

 

[Brendan Janus]

Messi's Arl Fella was a professional dancer, & a big fan of Lionel Blair

 

[Little Ralphy]

Yeah and then he got sacked when they finished 3rd , Guardiola changed things around a bit and created arguably the best team in club football. Messi elevated Barca to another level . Anyone who thinks different is either clueless or has some weird agenda .

Yeah cos it's the people who don't idolise Messi who are the weird ones.

 

[FCBarça]

Not really sure what your point is there, they won the Champions League in 2006 with Rykaard - Ronaldinho, Iniesta and Xavi.

Conveniently ignoring Leo's contributions that led up to the final before getting injured. Even in 2006 with the Ballon D'Or, Ronnie said he wasn't even the best player at Barcelona alluding to Messi

There is one goat

 

[Little Ralphy]

Conveniently ignoring Leo's contributions that led up to the final before getting injured. Even in 2006 with the Ballon D'Or, Ronnie said he wasn't even the best player at Barcelona alluding to Messi

There is one goat

You mean his goal in the 5-0 win over Panathinaikos?

Just like when Fabregas left Arsenal and he said that the Japanese lad was the best player at the club and not himself.

 

[Papa Shango]

It's the reason why attackers get paid the most and usually why a lot of Pro defenders started out in other areas of the pitch and moved back over time.

Defending is an art form especially nowadays when you can barely touch an attacker, but it's defo easier.

We are not talking about run of the mill defenders and attackers though, we are talking about the best of the best.

When you are a defender you have to be on your game for the whole 90 minutes. Only the good ones are able to do that all the time to a consistent level.

I don't think it is easier these days, it maybe was in the past where you could get away with more. Maybe favourite position (Sweeper) is pretty much a dead position these days anyway though.

 

[TraffordBlue]

Which level, International level, against top opposition? Or the Barca side built around him, which had Inesta and Xavi etc.

Argentina have had some great players over the last decade, you could argue it's the managers, but surely if Messi was this great 'team player' everyone claims him to be he could have lifted those players to World Cup glory, like Maradona did with a much less talented side.

Depends what you mean by well rounded really, well rounded technically? Cos Ronaldo beats him aerially, and is far less reliant on one foot. Physically Ronaldo has the edge as well. He has also done it with 2, soon to be 3 different club sides, in 3 different leagues. He'll always get plaudits for that. Pele says some daft things but there was an element of truth in what he said about Messi.

Personally I think Ronaldo (Brazilian one) is miles ahead of both, as is Maradona. It's becoming easier and easier for dribblers to look good, because defenders can't touch them without being booked. This is why you can't really compare players over different eras. I'm also sceptical of players who play 'in the hole' or just off the forward line, as it's an easier game than for someone who plays as the main striker like Ronaldo did, or Pele did for that matter.

I agree with your assessment on the things Cristiano Ronaldo is better at, but some of those physical attributes come from genetics, so of course Ronaldo is going to be more dominant in the air given the height advantage.

The playing for different clubs argument doesn't prove much in my opinion. The way this argument is used, it is as if Ronaldo has been one of the World's best while playing for Stoke while Messi has had the luxury of Barca players around him. Ronaldo has also been at the very top clubs and still is. Man United, Real Madrid, Juventus after his initial breakthrough. The real test of that argument is how Messi does in the Champions League against the top sides of those other main nations. And he has proven any doubters well and truly wrong by absolutely destroying English sides more than any other player - including Ronaldo.

As for the other Ronaldo, one of the best ever and hindered by injuries but he's not in Messi's category in my opinion. Goals wise he's comparable and as a Striker he had everything required in that position, but Messi's vision and passing ability sets him apart from every player that's ever lived, including Pele, Maradona, Zidane, both Ronaldo's and the rest.

 

[Little Ralphy]

We are not talking about run of the mill defenders and attackers though, we are talking about the best of the best.

When you are a defender you have to be on your game for the whole 90 minutes. Only the good ones are able to do that all the time to a consistent level.

I don't think it is easier these days, it maybe was in the past where you could get away with more. Maybe favourite position (Sweeper) is pretty much a dead position these days anyway though.

Easier for attackers these days I mean't, it's undoubtedly more difficult for defenders than it was in the past because you can't touch an attacker without getting booked now.