Martinez Out?

[roydo]

Or speak to Chelsea and try and move the goalposts?

Put it down to one of those days mate.

 

[davek]

Few of them figures are incorrect

chris doesn't do facts...it's not his strong-suit.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Hypothetical question for those 'Martinez out' people.

He's had a season and a half and of course we're struggling at the moment. But is a season and a half enough time to give him? One of the big things in football at the moment is the time, or lack of, managers get.

So, we sack martinez. Our new manager is given the same year and a half and we're in a similar position, which isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Do we sack them? What if we're in this position during his first season? We're not progressing, so surely he must go.

If we're not careful we'll turn into a manager merry-go-round and not get anywhere.

The hypothetical question turned into a convoluted mess, but you get my point.

 

[Tubey]

Hypothetical question for those 'Martinez out' people.

He's had a season and a half and of course we're struggling at the moment. But is a season and a half enough time to give him? One of the big things in football at the moment is the time, or lack of, managers get.

So, we sack martinez. Our new manager is given the same year and a half and we're in a similar position, which isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Do we sack them? What if we're in this position during his first season? We're not progressing, so surely he must go.

If we're not careful we'll turn into a manager merry-go-round and not get anywhere.

The hypothetical question turned into a convoluted mess, but you get my point.

The amount of times this is trotted out on here is beyond belief.

It's the mindset of fear, completely negative. Change isn't necessarily negative. If a manager is underperforming in his role, and it's been the case for a sustained period of time, then he shouldn't be blindly rewarded for underperformance.

I'd give any new manager 18 months barring a disastrous first 6 months. But after that, the "getting his own squad together" excuse no longer washes, neither does the "change the mindset of how we play" guff.

Martinez has had enough time to impose his personality and "philsophy" on this team, and the net result is unimpressive to say the least. Yes, he had a stellar first few months, we then sunk a bit from those standards and recovered towards the end of the season, but none of that matters given I personally judge him on the season we're in, just like I judged Moyes and didn't constantly hark back to ten years earlier to justify his existence.

If a manager is a dud, then he's a dud whether you give him 18 months or 18 years. The key is knowing when to recognise a dud - for me (and yes, it's only my personal opinion), Martinez sealed his fate after the WBA result in January as I don't have faith in his ability overall. I'd get rid in the summer.

 

[ijjysmith]

Hypothetical question for those 'Martinez out' people.

He's had a season and a half and of course we're struggling at the moment. But is a season and a half enough time to give him? One of the big things in football at the moment is the time, or lack of, managers get.

So, we sack martinez. Our new manager is given the same year and a half and we're in a similar position, which isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Do we sack them? What if we're in this position during his first season? We're not progressing, so surely he must go.

If we're not careful we'll turn into a manager merry-go-round and not get anywhere.

The hypothetical question turned into a convoluted mess, but you get my point.

It's a fair question.

But I'll throw one back at you.

Would he have survived at any other club in world football with 2 wins in 17 matches or whatever it is?

 

[Titus Bramble]

The amount of times this is trotted out on here is beyond belief.

It's the mindset of fear, completely negative. Change isn't necessarily negative. If a manager is underperforming in his role, and it's been the case for a sustained period of time, then he shouldn't be blindly rewarded for underperformance.

I'd give any new manager 18 months barring a disastrous first 6 months. But after that, the "getting his own squad together" excuse no longer washes, neither does the "change the mindset of how we play" guff.

Martinez has had enough time to impose his personality and "philsophy" on this team, and the net result is unimpressive to say the least. Yes, he had a stellar first few months, we then sunk a bit from those standards and recovered towards the end of the season, but none of that matters given I personally judge him on the season we're in, just like I judged Moyes and didn't constantly hark back to ten years earlier to justify his existence.

So you'd be happy for us to have a new manager every other season if it doesn't look like we're going to finish in the European places?

 

[Tubey]

So you'd be happy for us to have a new manager every other season if it doesn't look like we're going to finish in the European places?

No, it's relative. If we finished 17th, then 14th is a good finish for a new manager. If we finish in the Champions League, then it buys the guy a fair length of time of good will. Martinez got a lot of good will from me for what he did last season, which was exceptional, but ultimately the fall in standards has been far, far too much to justify, and indicates that he was breath of fresh air when he came in, but his man management and tactical stubbornness since has sunk the boat, and I don't see any coming back personally.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

 

[Bobs]

The problem with Roberto is that he keeps banging on about flexibility but plays the same way every game and guess what, other managers have noticed. Every team outside of the top 4 or 5 just set up to stop our full backs and sit deep knowing a. that Lukaku is rubbish with his back to goal and b. that we don´t have any creativity in the centre of the park. So the ball goes from one side to the other until we lose it and they catch us on the break. Meanwhile Barkley the most creative midfielder we have plays too far forward and constantly receives the ball in tight spaces and with his back to goal. Add to that the fact that certain players get picked week in week out regardless of form and you have a recipe for an unhappy dressing room and unhappy fans.
This hasn´t been such a problem in the Europa league because most teams have come out to play letting us hit them on the counter and giving Lukaku and Barkley the space to play in. But I think Everton fans want a bit more than a run in the Europa league and a bottom half finish especially with arguably the best squad we´ve had in a long long time. Getting rid of a manager is always a gamble and if I saw any sign from Roberto that he had a plan B then I would be for sticking with him but the Leicester game is just another example of something that´s been obvious all season.

 

[Titus Bramble]

It's a fair question.

But I'll throw one back at you.

Would he have survived at any other club in world football with 2 wins in 17 matches or whatever it is?

No idea. I suppose it depends on who the chairman is, league position and previous achievement (or lack of).

If we take Paul Lambert as an example, I'm amazed it's taken Villa this long to sack him, but that's because he's never shown any sign of getting Villa anywhere in the league or cups every season he's been there. I don't know what Lamberts record over the years has been, but he can't have runs much better than our current one!

 

[sageyefc]

It's a fair question.

But I'll throw one back at you.

Would he have survived at any other club in world football with 2 wins in 17 matches or whatever it is?

We're not any other club though, the one thing ill give kenwright is he gives managers time .

We could never become a hire and fire type because we couldnt afford to constantly pay of contracts for managers in and out

 

[Titus Bramble]

No, it's relative. If we finished 17th, then 14th is a good finish for a new manager. If we finish in the Champions League, then it buys the guy a fair length of time of good will. Martinez got a lot of good will from me for what he did last season, which was exceptional, but ultimately the fall in standards has been far, far too much to justify, and indicates that he was breath of fresh air when he came in, but his man management and tactical stubbornness since has sunk the boat, and I don't see any coming back personally.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

I suppose it depends how you look at it. You say you can't see him recapturing last season's form/performances, whereas I say let's give him next season to see if he can.

 

[ijjysmith]

We're not any other club though, the one thing ill give kenwright is he gives managers time .

We could never become a hire and fire type because we couldnt afford to constantly pay of contracts for managers in and out

True.

Perhaps we should be. The keeping a manager for ages technique hasn't exactly bought a trophy ridden few years has it?

 

[Tubey]

True.

Perhaps we should be. The keeping a manager for ages technique hasn't exactly bought a trophy ridden few years has it?

We could have kept Walter Smith for 10 years. No magic spell would make him any less of a Walter Smith, no matter how long he was in the job.

Length of time means nothing - if you spot flaws, and those flaws are consistent for months on end, experience with Moyes tells me those flaws don't go away.

You pretty much know everything about a manager inside two seasons, with the second season more important than the first, as that's when the guy has his own side and his own style.

 

[davek]

Hypothetical question for those 'Martinez out' people.

He's had a season and a half and of course we're struggling at the moment. But is a season and a half enough time to give him? One of the big things in football at the moment is the time, or lack of, managers get.

So, we sack martinez. Our new manager is given the same year and a half and we're in a similar position, which isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Do we sack them? What if we're in this position during his first season? We're not progressing, so surely he must go.

If we're not careful we'll turn into a manager merry-go-round and not get anywhere.

The hypothetical question turned into a convoluted mess, but you get my point.

We play good football, football to hold your head up high with. The results are a problem this season. We have our style though and we need to give Martinez another season to get it ironed out now that the drone teams of the PL - the dullards like WBA and Leicester and Hull - are setting up to kill games. Some, I believe, would willingly turn s into one of those dullard teams with a managerial switch to a neanderthal. Then there's those who'd have a Moyes type, who try to win games but can only do so by abandoning all attempts at playing a passing game.

We have our manager in place. We have our style. We need to encourage it and have faith in the manager to add a player or two in the summer who can crack stubborn teams who sit back.

 

[davek]

The amount of times this is trotted out on here is beyond belief.

It's the mindset of fear, completely negative. Change isn't necessarily negative. If a manager is underperforming in his role, and it's been the case for a sustained period of time, then he shouldn't be blindly rewarded for underperformance.

I'd give any new manager 18 months barring a disastrous first 6 months. But after that, the "getting his own squad together" excuse no longer washes, neither does the "change the mindset of how we play" guff.

Martinez has had enough time to impose his personality and "philsophy" on this team, and the net result is unimpressive to say the least. Yes, he had a stellar first few months, we then sunk a bit from those standards and recovered towards the end of the season, but none of that matters given I personally judge him on the season we're in, just like I judged Moyes and didn't constantly hark back to ten years earlier to justify his existence.

If a manager is a dud, then he's a dud whether you give him 18 months or 18 years. The key is knowing when to recognise a dud - for me (and yes, it's only my personal opinion), Martinez sealed his fate after the WBA result in January as I don't have faith in his ability overall. I'd get rid in the summer.

No offence, but you do realise after last season's great football and great results you sound a bit ridiculous calling Martinez a dud dont you?