Martinez Out: Post Stoke poll

[bainesontoast]

One week of Davek singling out plotters and bedwetters and they would be up to 40%.

Turns out the plotters were just forward thinkers who could see things before the manager finally came out with the relegation fight line.

Funny, eh?

Or is Bobby a plotter now, too?

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Not really, but theres no story if we dont twist his words.

“Winning a trophy at any price can be very costly in the long run,’’ he explained. “Of course you have to defend, but you want to be creative, constructive.” He will not “park the bus” to secure results to win a trophy.

I don't really understand what he's saying there though.

Has anyone ever won a trophy by "parking the bus"? And if they have, surely it works if your aim is winning football games?

It's not like he compared "parking the bus" to nicking enough draws near the end of a season to get the points you need to stay up, he's talking about "parking the bus" to win games of football. Which is what a managers job is.

But then again, i think it's clear the guy is an absolute football snob who is obessed with "playing the right way" and thinks that doing so is more important than results, that set piece goals don't count as much as passing 317 times before scoring.

 

[Christiffa25]

Graeme Jones says when he played for Milwall it was all heart and passion whereas today he likes to play technical and skilful. Well, I say we need to play with heart and passion and fight tooth and nail for every ball rather than sit back and wait for our opportunity. We need to get in teams faces and play with aggression and fight. There's no time for patient play or technical play in the last ten games, we have to play like the dogs of war. Will we though?

We don't have to play like the dogs of war tho. That's usually what teams with poor players resort to to get results/success.

We have very good players. Probably the best squad of players since the 80's. A mix of technical and grafters....

A manager that has us playing normal football would do nicely and we'd be picking up plenty of points!!

 

[toffee matt]

Interesting.

I haven't seen us do anything that looks remotely like football in the league since around October.

Lots of pretty passing moves but no football

 

[Robocop]

We don't have to play like the dogs of war tho. That's usually what teams with poor players resort to to get results/success.

We have very good players. Probably the best squad of players since the 80's. A mix of technical and grafters....

A manager that has us playing normal football would do nicely and we'd be picking up plenty of points!!

I think it's time to get gritty, no time for patient build up. If we lose the ball we need to be battle to win it back, we have to run iur legs off for 90 minutes for the next ten games

 

[Stanley Parker]

Has anyone ever won a trophy by "parking the bus"? And if they have, surely it works if your aim is winning football games?

Chelsea in the Champions League in 2011/12

The semi-final second leg away to Barcelona, drawn 2-2. Terry was sent off and Chelsea had just 27% possession.

Then the final against Bayern Munich 1-1, Chelsea won on penalties. They played without Ramires, Terry, Ivanovic and Meireles.

"Chelsea's blanket of defensive defiance served them well in the Nou Camp - and acted as a dress rehearsal for a first half spent almost entirely in their territory."

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Chelsea in the Champions League in 2011/12

The semi-final second leg away to Barcelona, drawn 2-2. Terry was sent off and Chelsea had just 27% possession.

Then the final against Bayern Munich 1-1, Chelsea won on penalties. They played without Ramires, Terry, Ivanovic and Meireles.

"Chelsea's blanket of defensive defiance served them well in the Nou Camp - and acted as a dress rehearsal for a first half spent almost entirely in their territory."

But they didn't play like that in every game did they?

And when it was needed, they used the tactics neccesary to win the game. Perfectly normal and should be expected.

You get the feeling Martinez would have tried to outpass Barcelona so he could talk about a "phenomenal" performance to keep the score down to 0-5. Well, 0-3 really cause 2 goals came from set pieces and they don't count.

 

[Tubey]

But they didn't play like that in every game did they?

And when it was needed, they used the tactics neccesary to win the game. Perfectly normal and should be expected.

You get the feeling Martinez would have tried to outpass Barcelona so he could talk about a "phenomenal" performance to keep the score down to 0-5. Well, 0-3 really cause 2 goals came from set pieces and they don't count.

And that's why Mourinho is a world class manager, and unfortunately Martinez isn't. Pragmatism beats idealism in the real world in most walks of life, and football management is no exception.

 

[bicycleheader]

Its how you define good football though isn't it. The best football is the football that wins the most games. Anything else is just subjective. Try telling Chelsea fans of Mourinho's record breaking 05 title team that Arsenal played better football then them. They'd laugh in your face. Football is not about flicks, nutmegs, and stupid stepovers. It is about scoring goals, and stopping the other team scoring goals. I've had some absolutely amazing nights at Goodison where we've not seen much of the ball but defended brilliantly and got a win and the crowd has been wild. Am I supposed to believe that is not more fun than watching Barcelona thrash some no mark Spanish side with a load of tiki taka? The entertainment from football comes from emotion. If we were losing the same amount of games that we are now but showboating all over the place no one would be any happier. Similarly if we were one nilling our way to the title with Stoke esque football everyone would be absolutely loving it. The best managers put results before style. Winning is all that matters for Mourinho, he constructs a brutal defense then gets talented forwards working hard to create a team that won't lose many games. People say they are boring but yet again he'll pick up a league title. Meanwhile Martinez et al are insisting its his way or no way. Perhaps the best place to look is Barcelona themselves who have now abandoned their sacred tiki taka for Liverpoolesque kick and rush up to Suarez and Messi. Even they can flex butt apparently Everton cannot. Baffling.

Your arguing against something that people aren't really saying here though. That best football sentence you put...THATS subjective....just as much as "anything else". Your idea of best may be different than others.

And I'm sure you will find Chelsea fans who would say..yep, the Arsenal team played better football but we won more points. Thats just an opinion, and a perfectly valid one.

And no you are not "supposed" to believe anything is better than anything else. You just like what you like.

The entertainment in football comes from emotion AND lots of other things. If Barkley gets the ball and does a Georgie Best beating players and then beating them again and then scores, we would still go wild for the goal and talk about for years even if we ultimately lost the game.

The best managers.......what you are saying there is the most successful managers put results before style. But even that is not 100% true. Nobody would argue that Guardiola is not one of the best AND most successful managers of the last decade. He certainly spent a good part of his career putting style first. Plenty of Dutch coaches win things with various clubs and will generally prioritise a certain style before just getting results.

 

[Goat]

Chelsea in the Champions League in 2011/12

The semi-final second leg away to Barcelona, drawn 2-2. Terry was sent off and Chelsea had just 27% possession.

They were 2-0 down and down to 10 men, are you sure you know what parking the bus means?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

And that's why Mourinho is a world class manager, and unfortunately Martinez isn't. Pragmatism beats idealism in the real world in most walks of life, and football management is no exception.

^ this and a bag of chips ffs

 

[Brownie]

Guardiola's said many times that he only coaches teams to play the way he does because he thinks it's the most effective way of playing and the best way to win.

 

[Goat]

Can we NOT bring Jose into a thread about El Fraudo PLEASE.

 

[Goat]

Guardiola's said many times that he only coaches teams to play the way he does because he thinks it's the most effective way of playing and the best way to win.

You can play like Barca when you have Barca players Browns.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Guardiola's said many times that he only coaches teams to play the way he does because he thinks it's the most effective way of playing and the best way to win.

The only two teams he's managed is Barca and Bayern though. Not exactly hard to get the best players in the world playing like he wants.