2020/21 Marcel Brands

[banno]

Brands has done well since his arrival. We are now in a place that is looking Rosey and promising and the gloom of the last 25-30 yrs looks like it is lifting at long last. We are not finished yet but in his short time here we are in a much stronger position.

 

[Toffeelover]

I thought it was 77 from Wigan?

That was down to Martinez??

 

[davek]

When you have a top manager can't see the need for one.

You have to have an owner who steps aside and allows managerial appointments especially to be made by the DoF. At his previous clubs Brands was left to do what he wanted and didn't have to answer directly to an owner or a board on a daily basis, just the General Manager. He did everything: scouting players, signing players, selling players, overseeing the academy to get kids though and sell on, hire and fire managers. I think he was handed 18 months or so to do that here before there was a realisation by the owner that the work he was doing wasn't good enough. The purchases were expensive, players weren't coming through from the academy, he failed to have the contacts to move players on without subsidising losses on them.

The sacking of Silva, hiring of Ancelotti and the bulk of this summer's transfer activity handed to the manager underlines how little faith the owner has in him. I just cant make a case for him to be here beyond the end of his contract. I doubt, after having wasted a lot of cash on terminating contracts of managers, Moshiri will be extending Brands'. This looks like a contract being allowed to run down and out.

 

[Toffeelover]

You have to have an owner who steps aside and allows managerial appointments especially to be made by the DoF. At his previous clubs Brands was left to do what he wanted and didn't have to answer directly to an owner or a board on a daily basis, just the General Manager. He did everything: scouting players, signing players, selling players, overseeing the academy to get kids though and sell on, hire and fire managers. I think he was handed 18 months or so to do that here before there was a realisation by the owner that the work he was doing wasn't good enough. The purchases were expensive, players weren't coming through from the academy, he failed to have the contacts to move players on without subsidising losses on them.

The sacking of Silva, hiring of Ancelotti and the bulk of this summer's transfer activity handed to the manager underlines how little faith the owner has in him. I just cant make a case for him to be here beyond the end of his contract. I doubt, after having wasted a lot of cash on terminating contracts of managers, Moshiri will be extending Brands'. This looks like a contract being allowed to run down and out.

You know I disagree with a lot of what you say, no offence Mate. When you say the purchases were expensive I know there was a question of him dealing with finances but who were the managers during the time you are thinking of. I bet they had quite a say in it for example Tosun.

Also you give little credit for the deadwood he has succeeded in moving on. We all know there is more to move but as I have said many times, if a club does not come in and make an offer what can he do? Add to that if the player says sod off I like the wages here what can he do, look at the Boro fiasco.

There is no easy way one cannot just wave a magic wand and all will be fine.

 

[davek]

You know I disagree with a lot of what you say, no offence Mate. When you say the purchases were expensive I know there was a question of him dealing with finances but who were the managers during the time you are thinking of. I bet they had quite a say in it for example Tosun.

Also you give little credit for the deadwood he has succeeded in moving on. We all know there is more to move but as I have said many times, if a club does not come in and make an offer what can he do? Add to that if the player says sod off I like the wages here what can he do, look at the Boro fiasco.

There is no easy way one cannot just wave a magic wand and all will be fine.

Tosun was signed before Brands arrived. The only reason Brands is not looking outrageously bad is because of the character that went before him: Koeman, who was even more calamitous than Brands.

Moving out players bought on big wages is difficult but not impossible. But he's also added to that problem with the massive salaries he's offered the likes of Bernard.

 

[Billy Dean]

 

[Martin Alvito]

When you have a top manager can't see the need for one.

Carlo's on record as flatly stating that he wants Brands retained. Reading between the lines a bit, his praise was that Brands is doing a 'fantastic job' with the stuff he doesn't have time to personally oversee.

Dave may be 100% right about the internal politics - it may well be that Carlo and the board want him, but Moshiri doesn't. It could also be the case that talks stalled because United showed up with a pile of cash and Woodward's days are numbered, as was rumored, and delaying the talks is just a face-saving mechanism for all parties.

Regardless, we're going to need someone to handle the impending cleanout because that sort of thing just isn't Carlo's bag.

 

[Toffeelover]

Tosun was signed before Brands arrived. The only reason Brands is not looking outrageously bad is because of the character that went before him: Koeman, who was even more calamitous than Brands.

Moving out players bought on big wages is difficult but not impossible. But he's also added to that problem with the massive salaries he's offered the likes of Bernard.

As for Bernard Dave, there was no transfer fee. Also as I said how do you move plyers on, you say not impossible so please clarify.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Moving out players bought on big wages is difficult but not impossible. But he's also added to that problem with the massive salaries he's offered the likes of Bernard.

Big wages are just the natural consequence of signing someone on a free. The wages are not unreasonable under the circumstances. The choice to sign can be questioned. I would argue that he combined well with Digne when they were in form, that we weren't going to do better given the state of the club at the time, and that we have since moved beyond him.

You're entitled to differ on those points and come to a different conclusion.

 

[Neiler]

Intersting to see what Moyes does at WHU without a DOF.

Has an eye for player does Davey.

 

[Deco]

The position cant work here. I'm convinced of that.

Also Iwobi, Bernard, Gomes.

With Carlo you need one.

Iwobi has been brilliant recently and is still young.

Bernard was free (high wages but total cost was well worth the risk), and will be pure FFP profit when he sells for ~£10m.

Gomes was/is a fan favourite and was well worth £20m - he’d still get that fee now. The leg break isn’t Marcel’s fault.

Pretty good transfer record overall.

 

[Nymzee]

 

[davek]

As for Bernard Dave, there was no transfer fee. Also as I said how do you move plyers on, you say not impossible so please clarify.

Cleverley was moved on for a massive profit. Aidan McGeady was shifted on for a small profit.

Brands was paid a lot of money to both sides of his job in the transfer market, he's done both poorly.

 

[davek]

Big wages are just the natural consequence of signing someone on a free. The wages are not unreasonable under the circumstances. The choice to sign can be questioned. I would argue that he combined well with Digne when they were in form, that we weren't going to do better given the state of the club at the time, and that we have since moved beyond him.

You're entitled to differ on those points and come to a different conclusion.

He gave a massive wage to a player who is clearly not up to this league. Itls not the wage so much as the lack of ability. James is an example of what can be done with frees - and that's down to Ancelotti.

 

[davek]

With Carlo you need one.

Iwobi has been brilliant recently and is still young.

Bernard was free (high wages but total cost was well worth the risk), and will be pure FFP profit when he sells for ~£10m.

Gomes was/is a fan favourite and was well worth £20m - he’d still get that fee now. The leg break isn’t Marcel’s fault.

Pretty good transfer record overall.

I think he's been bang average to appalling on incomoings and appalling on outgoings.

Why did we need a DoF to get us players? His scope and reach into Europe is limited and he seems to know nothing much about the English market.

It took Ancelotti one transfer window to improve things massively.

In short: we dont need Brands.