2020/21 Marcel Brands

[DaChunk]

The £25mil for Godfrey may also seem expensive now (as alot thought of richarlison) but in 1-2 years he may be a regular international and star centre back for us...

The issue i have is with the players he's missed out on through dithering and the ones hes bought in their place not being comparable in development or position...

Lenglet -- Mina (Lenglet was 1st choice, went to Barca so we signed Mina who is a very different player).

Gabriel -- Godfrey (Differences are obvious)

Zaha -- Iwobi (Differences are obvious)

Doucoure -- Delph (We got Doucoure in the end but very different players)

I've also noticed and been concerned by this theme. Why do you think its occuring? Is it a money issue or is Brands susceptible to being blinded by stats and forgets about the old eye test?

 

[Carlito]

Unknowable to us, but the answers are probably funds and availability.



The squad's a lot better than the one he inherited. The only players that he inherited that I know of any group of regular posters wanting to build around are DCL, Keane and Holgate.

To put that another way, he didn't inherit a squad capable of going 7/7 in all competitions.

It may not be where we want the project, and we may not agree with all of the decisions, but it's undeniable that the squad is in better condition than he found it despite working under the constraint of some serious albatross contracts. It's also equally clear that his hit rate is far from 100% and that there have been some expensive misses.

I think he's made some astute signings, most notably Digne, but I can't accept the idea that he's managed to take the squad in hand and steer it in the right direction.

He failed to nip the Pickford situation in the bud, and he's now basically a laughing stock who will be impossible to shift at anything but a massive loss.

The two senior centre-backs are extremely limited, with the one who Brands bought being significantly more of a liability than the other.

There are no back-ups that the manager is willing to use at full-back, which is tantamount to there being no back-up at all. This has also had a knock-on effect elsewhere, as players bought for 4-3-3 are now being overrun in a two-man midfield.

There's virtually no cover in attack because he wasted a significant amount of money on Kean, Bernard and Iwobi; none of whom have been regular starters under any of the managers they've played under.

If he recognises how unfit for purpose both Sigurdsson and Delph are, he failed to shift either in the summer.

To me, the same old problems that were obvious under Walsh are still in evidence now. As a chief scout, he's been hit and miss, which is fair enough (few, if any, get everything right), but as the man responsible for overseeing joined-up thinking and long-term strategising across the board, I don't think he's done well enough on most fronts.

 

[andy4efc]

Even 1 signing a window until 2022 summer gives us 4 new u21s to add to the 4 we have in the squad (bar kean) now.

If another 1 or two come through the u23s we'll almost have half a squad covered...allowing us to use the money available on one or two top players.



1st in bold = As ive repeated many times since Feb and have been proven correct, there was no effect on summer signings.

2: Gabriel = Again, the deal was wrapped up before we paused it and allowed other clubs time to come in. Common knowledge now i thought?

3: Lenglet was the 1st choice, im pretty sure brands said so himself...he went to barca so we got mina.

4: The point wasnt about players choosing us over other teams, it was that the players we signed after not getting the 1st choices arent even similar 'types'. I mean Mina/Lenglet Delph/Doucoure Godfrey/Gabriel Iwobi/Zaha arent even similar...

I mean you're completely making it up saying it was wrapped up and it had no effect. Firstly, us pausing ANY transfer is COVID having an affect. No club knew what was going to happen. Unfortunately that gave Arsenal time to come in. It's unfortunate, nothing more. Brands is criticisable for many things, but the Gabriel came at a really unfortunate time with COVID. Simply having to delay something is having an affect.

Can you find where Brands said Lenglet was first choice? and where it it was him dithering that cost us? Please find me some proof of that, because I highly doubt Marcel Brands, an experienced business man in football came out and basically tells a player in public he was only signed because he couldn't get someone else.

As I say, I'm with you on some of the criticism of Brands, his plan of younger players who can become top players appears to have gone out of the window pretty quickly, some of his signings seem odd and as you say the type of player doesn't seem consistent.. There HAS to be questions of him on these, it's part of his job and as somebody else has stated, we have seen the likes of Unsworth be promoted without providing any actual results as an academy team manager. (Winning the league isn't results at that level, improving players and having them knock on the door is success).

I don't mind you Zat, despite your appearance of wanting to be seen as a European super scout, but I'm almost certain I have seen you peddle this dithering crap with Gabriel before. A global pandemic hits and you're annoyed that the club didn't throw £30m away when they didn't know the full consequences. Blame Brands for many things, Iwobi, Mina etc. Fair enough, his judgement of a player has to be questioned, however to put Gabriel on him just isn't right.

There are plenty of things this club get wrong, mostly the hyping up only to smash you down hulk-style almost every single season, but I just fail to see how you can criticise a business for delaying parting with a huge amount of money while not knowing what is coming down the line due to an unforeseen circumstances such as COVID.

All about perspective for me. Personally I can't say I am massively sold on MB but I wont criticise him at any opportunity without merit.

 

[chippy1722]

I think he's made some astute signings, most notably Digne, but I can't accept the idea that he's managed to take the squad in hand and steer it in the right direction.

He failed to nip the Pickford situation in the bud, and he's now basically a laughing stock who will be impossible to shift at anything but a massive loss.

The two senior centre-backs are extremely limited, with the one who Brands bought being significantly more of a liability than the other.

There are no back-ups that the manager is willing to use at full-back, which is tantamount to there being no back-up at all. This has also had a knock-on effect elsewhere, as players bought for 4-3-3 are now being overrun in a two-man midfield.

There's virtually no cover in attack because he wasted a significant amount of money on Kean, Bernard and Iwobi; none of whom have been regular starters under any of the managers they've played under.

If he recognises how unfit for purpose both Sigurdsson and Delph are, he failed to shift either in the summer.

To me, the same old problems that were obvious under Walsh are still in evidence now. As a chief scout, he's been hit and miss, which is fair enough (few, if any, get everything right), but as the man responsible for overseeing joined-up thinking and long-term strategising across the board, I don't think he's done well enough on most fronts.

The difference is everyone knew Walsh was a scout who came to a position he’d never really done.
Brands is a massive profile probably on a lot more money and part of the board.
I expected a lot lot more.

 

[BarryThompson1]

Barry, why bother,? I've never understood going on other teams boards! Also there are at least 4 spelling/grammatical errors........see me!!!

Been a blue longer than you were born little boy let me you that .

 

[Martin Alvito]

I think he's made some astute signings, most notably Digne, but I can't accept the idea that he's managed to take the squad in hand and steer it in the right direction.

"Better than he found it" doesn't necessarily imply "steered in the right direction". I think we can all agree that it's still a flawed squad. I also think that there's a lot more to build around than there was with the squad he inherited.

Neither Urquhart Castle nor Battersea Power Station was inhabitable ten years ago...but one was a bit more of a fixer-upper than the other.

As far as selling our white elephants goes, just because we want to sell doesn't mean anyone wants to buy at a price that would convince the player and his agent to move rather than run the current contract down.

Which, by the way, is the major risk with signing older players - if you miss, and you're their last expectrd big contract, you're paying the full duration at that price rather than the usual <years - 2> actual contract commitment for players with secondary market value.

 

[Zatara]

I've also noticed and been concerned by this theme. Why do you think its occuring? Is it a money issue or is Brands susceptible to being blinded by stats and forgets about the old eye test?

No clue...its weird.

Its almost like a team aiming for a 6'5 target man and then signing a 5'5 poacher...just bizarre.

I mean you're completely making it up saying it was wrapped up and it had no effect. Firstly, us pausing ANY transfer is COVID having an affect. No club knew what was going to happen. Unfortunately that gave Arsenal time to come in. It's unfortunate, nothing more. Brands is criticisable for many things, but the Gabriel came at a really unfortunate time with COVID. Simply having to delay something is having an affect.

Can you find where Brands said Lenglet was first choice? and where it it was him dithering that cost us? Please find me some proof of that, because I highly doubt Marcel Brands, an experienced business man in football came out and basically tells a player in public he was only signed because he couldn't get someone else.

As I say, I'm with you on some of the criticism of Brands, his plan of younger players who can become top players appears to have gone out of the window pretty quickly, some of his signings seem odd and as you say the type of player doesn't seem consistent.. There HAS to be questions of him on these, it's part of his job and as somebody else has stated, we have seen the likes of Unsworth be promoted without providing any actual results as an academy team manager. (Winning the league isn't results at that level, improving players and having them knock on the door is success).

I don't mind you Zat, despite your appearance of wanting to be seen as a European super scout, but I'm almost certain I have seen you peddle this dithering crap with Gabriel before. A global pandemic hits and you're annoyed that the club didn't throw £30m away when they didn't know the full consequences. Blame Brands for many things, Iwobi, Mina etc. Fair enough, his judgement of a player has to be questioned, however to put Gabriel on him just isn't right.

There are plenty of things this club get wrong, mostly the hyping up only to smash you down hulk-style almost every single season, but I just fail to see how you can criticise a business for delaying parting with a huge amount of money while not knowing what is coming down the line due to an unforeseen circumstances such as COVID.

All about perspective for me. Personally I can't say I am massively sold on MB but I wont criticise him at any opportunity without merit.

This whole covid argument is nonsense mate...said it since day 1 and been proven correct as per the fee for Godfrey vs Gabriel + other signings. Honestly too late for me to go into it again but for me it was extremely clear that covid wouldnt affect our transfer dealings...

Alot of people in different industries and life have been hugely negatively impacted financially, also alot have benefited (USM for one...their investments and returns (ive noticed months ago) increased substantially.

If you search back, i said the same when the gabriel news was leaked...

Its 3am here and this is the first thing that pops up on a google search for brands / lenglet...there will be better links but i remember it coming out and its true.

Marcel Brands reveals Everton wanted to sign Clement Lenglet

Everton director Marcel Brands has revealed that the club wanted to sign Clement Lenglet from Sevilla this summer. The French defender ended up joining

www.google.com

 

[Carlito]

"Better than he found it" doesn't necessarily imply "steered in the right direction". I think we can all agree that it's still a flawed squad. I also think that there's a lot more to build around than there was with the squad he inherited.

Neither Urquhart Castle nor Battersea Power Station was inhabitable ten years ago...but one was a bit more of a fixer-upper than the other.

As far as selling our white elephants goes, just because we want to sell doesn't mean anyone wants to buy at a price that would convince the player and his agent to move rather than run the current contract down.

Which, by the way, is the major risk with signing older players - if you miss, and you're their last expectrd big contract, you're paying the full duration at that price rather than the usual <years - 2> actual contract commitment for players with secondary market value.

Yeah, it's fair to say that even if a lot of the same problems exist, the standout players in the current team are better than their 2017/18 counterparts.

I get that people will think I'm just overreacting to a poor run of form, but he hasn't done enough to change the culture at the club for me (paying ridiculous fees for average players, not replacing unreliable players and continuing to let the academy be filled with Kenwright cronies). It doesn't feel like he's truly in charge, or that this 'Architect' is working to any particular blueprint.

 

[Death]

I have never ever posted in this thread and I’m not sure why

 

[BlueStevie35]

Been a blue longer than you were born little boy let me you that .

Sure you have Barry, sure you have

 

[CRIMHEAD]

No clue...its weird.

Its almost like a team aiming for a 6'5 target man and then signing a 5'5 poacher...just bizarre.




This whole covid argument is nonsense mate...said it since day 1 and been proven correct as per the fee for Godfrey vs Gabriel + other signings. Honestly too late for me to go into it again but for me it was extremely clear that covid wouldnt affect our transfer dealings...

Alot of people in different industries and life have been hugely negatively impacted financially, also alot have benefited (USM for one...their investments and returns (ive noticed months ago) increased substantially.

If you search back, i said the same when the gabriel news was leaked...

Its 3am here and this is the first thing that pops up on a google search for brands / lenglet...there will be better links but i remember it coming out and its true.

Marcel Brands reveals Everton wanted to sign Clement Lenglet

Everton director Marcel Brands has revealed that the club wanted to sign Clement Lenglet from Sevilla this summer. The French defender ended up joining

www.google.com

Silva wanted Lenglet. He wanted Gomes, Richarlison, and Lenglet.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

I think he's made some astute signings, most notably Digne, but I can't accept the idea that he's managed to take the squad in hand and steer it in the right direction.

He failed to nip the Pickford situation in the bud, and he's now basically a laughing stock who will be impossible to shift at anything but a massive loss.

The two senior centre-backs are extremely limited, with the one who Brands bought being significantly more of a liability than the other.

There are no back-ups that the manager is willing to use at full-back, which is tantamount to there being no back-up at all. This has also had a knock-on effect elsewhere, as players bought for 4-3-3 are now being overrun in a two-man midfield.

There's virtually no cover in attack because he wasted a significant amount of money on Kean, Bernard and Iwobi; none of whom have been regular starters under any of the managers they've played under.

If he recognises how unfit for purpose both Sigurdsson and Delph are, he failed to shift either in the summer.

To me, the same old problems that were obvious under Walsh are still in evidence now. As a chief scout, he's been hit and miss, which is fair enough (few, if any, get everything right), but as the man responsible for overseeing joined-up thinking and long-term strategising across the board, I don't think he's done well enough on most fronts.

Sigurdsson chose to stay. He had a deal from Al-Hilal.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Sigurdsson chose to stay. He had a deal from Al-Hilal.

Come on now, I'm no fan of Sigurdsson but to suggest he give up Everton for a food is a bit much.

 

[andy4efc]

No clue...its weird.

Its almost like a team aiming for a 6'5 target man and then signing a 5'5 poacher...just bizarre.




This whole covid argument is nonsense mate...said it since day 1 and been proven correct as per the fee for Godfrey vs Gabriel + other signings. Honestly too late for me to go into it again but for me it was extremely clear that covid wouldnt affect our transfer dealings...

Alot of people in different industries and life have been hugely negatively impacted financially, also alot have benefited (USM for one...their investments and returns (ive noticed months ago) increased substantially.

If you search back, i said the same when the gabriel news was leaked...

Its 3am here and this is the first thing that pops up on a google search for brands / lenglet...there will be better links but i remember it coming out and its true.

Marcel Brands reveals Everton wanted to sign Clement Lenglet

Everton director Marcel Brands has revealed that the club wanted to sign Clement Lenglet from Sevilla this summer. The French defender ended up joining

www.google.com

It's not nonsense, it's clear as day. Just because it's turned out that EFC, and companies with relation to EFC have actualyl come out ok, that wasn't known at the time. It was responsible to hold off. It's unfortuante, nothing more. As I say, plenty to question Brands on but that's not one of them. We don't even know the full circumstances, the club may have blocked it from above, if so, it wouldn't even be on Brands would it?

Fair enough regarding Llenglet but again, no suggestion of any dithering. We could have easily asked and he's said he's off to Barca. Unfortunately like I said, nobody is joining us ahead of Barca, nobody.

 

[andy4efc]

I think he's made some astute signings, most notably Digne, but I can't accept the idea that he's managed to take the squad in hand and steer it in the right direction.

He failed to nip the Pickford situation in the bud, and he's now basically a laughing stock who will be impossible to shift at anything but a massive loss.

The two senior centre-backs are extremely limited, with the one who Brands bought being significantly more of a liability than the other.

There are no back-ups that the manager is willing to use at full-back, which is tantamount to there being no back-up at all. This has also had a knock-on effect elsewhere, as players bought for 4-3-3 are now being overrun in a two-man midfield.

There's virtually no cover in attack because he wasted a significant amount of money on Kean, Bernard and Iwobi; none of whom have been regular starters under any of the managers they've played under.

If he recognises how unfit for purpose both Sigurdsson and Delph are, he failed to shift either in the summer.

To me, the same old problems that were obvious under Walsh are still in evidence now. As a chief scout, he's been hit and miss, which is fair enough (few, if any, get everything right), but as the man responsible for overseeing joined-up thinking and long-term strategising across the board, I don't think he's done well enough on most fronts.

I cant disagree with much, but the one thing I will say is its easy to say "failed to replace or get rid" when who is wanting to take our garbage mate? Look at Siggy, Delph as examples. They're not the worst players in the world, but what club is A. looking to take us from us? If you answer that question which is fine, you can then ask B. Are they paying their wages? The answer is no.

As you say, they get some right and some wrong which is fine (to an extent) but there has to be an overall plan and that's what I would criticise him for. I can't blame him for not being able to sell Sandro, Siggurdsson, JJK etc. I wouldn't buy them, why would a professional in the business want them?

The Pickford thing, well, there has been a decent GK in there previously so I can understand showing some faith (especially when recently there has been bigger needs in terms of positioning). However your right who's going to pay a good fee for him now? Again, Wages come into an issue. He seems to have absolutely fallen of a cliff edge in terms of ability, confidence and mentality. The witch hunt in the media hasn't helped him either or us.

Overall, we are still suffering from the Walsh regime, but I dont think Brands has helped himself in certain areas. We do have a backup right back in JJK (we by all accounts were looking for one and would have sold if we had got another), who has been injured at an unfortunate time as Coleman being injured, also Holgate being injured too. We also seemed to have a promising left back behind Digne (Niels played well in his games, young, promising, pacey, can whip a ball). I think that question of not playing him comes down to CA though as CA did say he'd rang him, spoke to him and convinced him to come too.

I'm sure Brands has made changes to recruitment and the academy (which you don't see until years down the line), but I have to agree some of it has been questionable. If i could see the plan, or the thinking behind it (Like I kinda saw with Delph, covers plenty of positions, experienced) then I could stay patient or hold off on the questions. There just appears to be no plan, or at least there was and that's been changed to appease Ancelotti, which again, I dont mind but at least have some consistency with it and a clear vision.