Match Thread Manchester City(1) Vs Everton(2) - Capital One Cup - Semi Final 2nd Leg - Weds 27th Jan - 19:45 KO

[BlueToff]

What solid facts are these? Seems like a fair number of fans are discontented with the team performances over the last 18 months. As manager Roberto obviously shoulders responsibility for that. What are these solid facts that make their dissatisfaction unreasonable?

1. The ball for the second being out of play (but no, it's down to Stones not defending)
2. Deulofeu going off because he was knackered and lost possession numerous times around 55 mins/60 mins (but no, he should be on and stropping about for 30 mins more)
3. Their first goal being a deflection off Baines (but no, it was Stones who was at fault for not stopping Aguero's get a shot on in the first place).

That's three examples from last night, off the top of my head

 

[BigDuncis Blue]

There's passion and there's having an agenda dead set against a manager/player and even when presented with solid facts, will not budge their opinion. Starting to remind me of them lot across the park...

Nothing like the RS. What agenda you talking about. Many supporters cosider RM is not up to the job. The results and the way we play is the reason why some want him gone.

 

[BlueToff]

What solid facts are these? Seems like a fair number of fans are discontented with the team performances over the last 18 months. As manager Roberto obviously shoulders responsibility for that. What are these solid facts that make their dissatisfaction unreasonable?

I said last night, that if Roberto had got it seriously wrong last night, I'd have been one of the first to say so.

He didn't, IMO. We went with a gameplan that, up until the second goal that was wrongly allowed, (and quite clearly out of play) worked.

 

[BlueToff]

Nothing like the RS. What agenda you talking about. Many supporters cosider RM is not up to the job. The results and the way we play is the reason why some want him gone.

1. Martinez not the man for the job - must go - but then they offer no realistic alternative (I saw somebody suggest Ancelotti last night!!!!) all you get is - 'we need a top class manager'. Give me a name...

2. Stones can now do no right. Even though he had a good game yesterday all in all (1 miss-placed pass that he recovered from in the first half) he gets slaughtered because Aguero's movement did for him for their third goal. It also did for Jagielka, as well, but no - it's all on Stones...

again, 2 agendas that (some) fans just won't budge on despite being presented with facts

 

[Ashtonian]

1. The ball for the second being out of play (but no, it's down to Stones not defending)
2. Deulofeu going off because he was knackered and lost possession numerous times around 55 mins/60 mins (but no, he should be on and stropping about for 30 mins more)
3. Their first goal being a deflection off Baines (but no, it was Stones who was at fault for not stopping Aguero's get a shot on in the first place).

That's three examples from last night, off the top of my head

1. What about the three defenders in the box who didnt pick up the players? Essentially de bruyne and his mate could run into a big open space in the box unchecked by anyone so a few inches another way and the ball is in play

2. The issue was not del going off but kone coming on. We needed pace and we got kone instead, great he can hold the ball up more, what exactly did that achieve last night?

3, The shot again was taken in space, the defence and midfield are either too deep or not reactive enough to the ball breaking into the space outside the box. Ergo, why it has happened twice in two weeks, as long as the midfielder has time to put their foot through it, there is always chance of it deflecting.

 

[sheedys left foot]

1. Martinez not the man for the job - must go - but then they offer no realistic alternative (I saw somebody suggest Ancelotti last night!!!!) all you get is - 'we need a top class manager'. Give me a name...

Mate if your car keeps breaking down on hills and you know it can't be fixed do you stick with it just because you can't afford a brand new model or do you try something different within your budget in the knowledge that it can't get any worse??

 

[Jeff Jones]

Blowing at 97:40...complete BS

Why is it? There were 5 minutes extra time on the board and play was held up for 2 minutes and 40 seconds for de Bruyne's injury.

Can't see any problem there.

 

[Ashtonian]

1. Martinez not the man for the job - must go - but then they offer no realistic alternative (I saw somebody suggest Ancelotti last night!!!!) all you get is - 'we need a top class manager'. Give me a name...

2. Stones can now do no right. Even though he had a good game yesterday all in all (1 miss-placed pass that he recovered from in the first half) he gets slaughtered because Aguero's movement did for him for their third goal. It also did for Jagielka, as well, but no - it's all on Stones...

again, 2 agendas that (some) fans just won't budge on despite being presented with facts

1. There is plenty, beilsa, the german fella who left his job last season, De Beur, eddie howe (gamble), Benitez (not for me), mourhinio (pay him enough + takeover, never know), frank reichart, there is plenty.

2. Stones was played out of position. he is going through a poor spell and rather than be dropped for it, he is then moved out of his preferred position. Poor managing from martinez, the lad needs time away from the team, not increasing the difficulty.

3. the third was just a great cross and great header from aguero, some times you just admit the goal is top quality and move on

 

[BlueToff]

1. What about the three defenders in the box who didnt pick up the players? Essentially de bruyne and his mate could run into a big open space in the box unchecked by anyone so a few inches another way and the ball is in play

- Yes, but the ball was out of play. It shouldn't have stood. It was clear-cut. We wouldn't have got the decision at the other end, you can guarantee that.

2. The issue was not del going off but kone coming on. We needed pace and we got kone instead, great he can hold the ball up more, what exactly did that achieve last night?

- I agree, though I understand why Kone was brought on. It was to try and get Rom more involved in the game. In retrospect, Lennon probably the better option, yes.

3, The shot again was taken in space, the defence and midfield are either too deep or not reactive enough to the ball breaking into the space outside the box. Ergo, why it has happened twice in two weeks, as long as the midfielder has time to put their foot through it, there is always chance of it deflecting.

- But Stones is not to blame for it is he? Which is what i'm being told... if anyone is to blame, it's Baines for a terrible attempt at a block...

 

[BlueToff]

1. There is plenty, beilsa, the german fella who left his job last season, De Beur, eddie howe (gamble), Benitez (not for me), mourhinio (pay him enough + takeover, never know), frank reichart, there is plenty.

- None that would come right now though mate, was probably my point. Beilsa is a crack-pot, don't know which German fella you mean? If he goes, we wait until summer unless we can get an immediate replacement in. My choice whenever RM does leave would be Quique Flores. But like you've just done, it's not hard to give some realistic names - many fans I've spoken to can't do that...

2. Stones was played out of position. he is going through a poor spell and rather than be dropped for it, he is then moved out of his preferred position. Poor managing from martinez, the lad needs time away from the team, not increasing the difficulty.

- I don't think he should have been dropped last night. I think he played well (granted, out of position) up until Sterling went wide left and got that ball in - but it was over the line - it shouldn't have counted.

3. the third was just a great cross and great header from aguero, some times you just admit the goal is top quality and move on

- Totally agree here mate. It's what I've tried to say, while admitting that Stones (and Jags, mind you) did get caught wanting, it was a fantastic cross, a great run and a good header from two of Europe's best players.

 

[BlueToff]

1. There is plenty, beilsa, the german fella who left his job last season, De Beur, eddie howe (gamble), Benitez (not for me), mourhinio (pay him enough + takeover, never know), frank reichart, there is plenty.

2. Stones was played out of position. he is going through a poor spell and rather than be dropped for it, he is then moved out of his preferred position. Poor managing from martinez, the lad needs time away from the team, not increasing the difficulty.

3. the third was just a great cross and great header from aguero, some times you just admit the goal is top quality and move on

Posted the below last night mate. Would you say that it is a semi-decent reflection of the game?


City scored with a very lucky deflection from a pot-shot that Joel had covered - that came from us conceding the ball high upfield looking to start an attack. They then, naturally, went at us and they pushed us back. A £700million team pushed us back - at they're home ground - because they had the confidence of scoring. We couldn't get out because if we had they'd have killed us and the game would have been over by half time.

We weathered that storm excellently, with a bit of luck I will admit, and finished the second half on the front foot and Rom should have scored (even though it wouldn't have counted as Atkinson was playing for them tonight).

Then, we had Del's chance that he should have put away. No excuses.

They pushed us back and we needed to make subs as the legs were going for Ossie and Del. So we did. We made the change of McCarthy to add power to the midfield, and the change of Kone to stop Rom being isolated - that was an attacking change.

They hit the post, but that was their only real chance before Atkinson/lino failed to do their/his job and City got that goal.

From there, we never recovered and a bit of top class play from De Bruyne to get the ball in and top class movement from Aguero (the best striker in the country by a country mile) got the better of Jags and Stones.

That was that.

The game changed on another terrible decision by the referee/officials.

 

[Ashtonian]

@BlueToff

- Yes, but the ball was out of play. It shouldn't have stood. It was clear-cut. We wouldn't have got the decision at the other end, you can guarantee that.

the thing is mate, a few inches, not even that and the ball isnt out. It made no difference really, sterlings cross didn't suddenly become brilliant because he had an inch of space, and the defence basically were caught out ball watching, its petty to blame conceding solely on that when de bruyne should never be allowed to casually stroll into the box.

- I agree, though I understand why Kone was brought on. It was to try and get Rom more involved in the game. In retrospect, Lennon probably the better option, yes.

I called it before the game, the game plan was kone and (i thought piennar) to slow the pace and keep hold of the ball. Martinez should have seen that was not the best option and kept pace on to provide some sort of an outlet, once that went and city scored it was game over. We couldn't threaten them anymore.

- But Stones is not to blame for it is he? Which is what i'm being told... if anyone is to blame, it's Baines for a terrible attempt at a block...

It was poor defending all round and a relfection of martinez's thoughts on defending. We were defeding our box, like we usually do, which allows space outside. A better managed defence would have one of cleverley/barry/osman to be covering that space so the opposition player cannot just line a shot up in that instance. Tells you something when it happens twice in two weeks!

 

[Ashtonian]

Posted the below last night mate. Would you say that it is a semi-decent reflection of the game?

City scored with a very lucky deflection from a pot-shot that Joel had covered - that came from us conceding the ball high upfield looking to start an attack. They then, naturally, went at us and they pushed us back. A £700million team pushed us back - at they're home ground - because they had the confidence of scoring. We couldn't get out because if we had they'd have killed us and the game would have been over by half time.

We weathered that storm excellently, with a bit of luck I will admit, and finished the second half on the front foot and Rom should have scored (even though it wouldn't have counted as Atkinson was playing for them tonight).

Then, we had Del's chance that he should have put away. No excuses.

They pushed us back and we needed to make subs as the legs were going for Ossie and Del. So we did. We made the change of McCarthy to add power to the midfield, and the change of Kone to stop Rom being isolated - that was an attacking change.

They hit the post, but that was their only real chance before Atkinson/lino failed to do their/his job and City got that goal.

From there, we never recovered and a bit of top class play from De Bruyne to get the ball in and top class movement from Aguero (the best striker in the country by a country mile) got the better of Jags and Stones.

That was that.

The game changed on another terrible decision by the referee/officials.

It didn't take a genius to work out that city were going to attack us and bombard us in the second half so the reflection of the game in my opinion was what i have been saying for the past few days, martinez couldn't nadapt a team to defend and attack over 90 minutes. He hoped we would just score every time we needed to, then hoped city wouldnt score twice.

The game didn't change on that decision though, because we were still in the cup at that point, and the goals were coming for a long time, i mean they hit the post twice last night! but last night was expected, city played the way i thought they would and we played (and the subs) were made like clock work as well. On the basis of the game the better team won, iregardless of who was playing. But there were defensive errors in our game, and largely it was down to the defence as to at least 2 goals were scored. any other time you could take that away and say 'we will learn from this', except it is a running theme now all season and we keep making the same mistakes.

 

[Saint Domingo]

1. The ball for the second being out of play (but no, it's down to Stones not defending)
2. Deulofeu going off because he was knackered and lost possession numerous times around 55 mins/60 mins (but no, he should be on and stropping about for 30 mins more)
3. Their first goal being a deflection off Baines (but no, it was Stones who was at fault for not stopping Aguero's get a shot on in the first place).

That's three examples from last night, off the top of my head

Isolated incidents in one game. If they were the exception to the rule you'd find most fans fuming at the ref for last night. The reason they're not is because we've had 18 months of these incidents. It's always a refereeing error, or a deflection, or someone's injured, or an individual error. You can't be unlucky for that long, last night is another example of the pattern of the last 18 months hence the fan reaction.

 

[BlueToff]

@BlueToff

- Yes, but the ball was out of play. It shouldn't have stood. It was clear-cut. We wouldn't have got the decision at the other end, you can guarantee that.

the thing is mate, a few inches, not even that and the ball isnt out. It made no difference really, sterlings cross didn't suddenly become brilliant because he had an inch of space, and the defence basically were caught out ball watching, its petty to blame conceding solely on that when de bruyne should never be allowed to casually stroll into the box.

- I agree, though I understand why Kone was brought on. It was to try and get Rom more involved in the game. In retrospect, Lennon probably the better option, yes.

I called it before the game, the game plan was kone and (i thought piennar) to slow the pace and keep hold of the ball. Martinez should have seen that was not the best option and kept pace on to provide some sort of an outlet, once that went and city scored it was game over. We couldn't threaten them anymore.

- But Stones is not to blame for it is he? Which is what i'm being told... if anyone is to blame, it's Baines for a terrible attempt at a block...

It was poor defending all round and a relfection of martinez's thoughts on defending. We were defeding our box, like we usually do, which allows space outside. A better managed defence would have one of cleverley/barry/osman to be covering that space so the opposition player cannot just line a shot up in that instance. Tells you something when it happens twice in two weeks!

1. I see your point mate, but I think the main factor has to be that the ball was actually at least half a foot out of play. If it was in-play, Stones would have stopped that cross because of the angle it was at.

De Buryne is a very clever player and picked up that space excellently as well on the edge of the area.

2. Yep, fair enough. At the time I understood the change though, but we could have done with pace.

3. If you watch it back it actually comes from a goal-kick that Rom doesn't challenge for. Demichelles' header then by-passes our entire midfield and Silva is free to play a smart pass through. After that, I actually think both Stones and Jags do well. It falls to Fernadinho, who takes a pot-shot - pure and simple. Baines turns his body ever so slightly and leaves a leg out. Joel would have stopped it easily if not.