Making more of what we've got

[billycopper]

And Fellaini. He lost his man a fair few times.

If Fellaini jumped or attacked the ball he would be so much more of a threat. He heads it from where he's stood. It surprises me that the coaches haven't picked up on it.

 

[billycopper]

To be honest the thing that excites me most is a possible change of system, we're a good 11 years playing variations of 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1!

The possibility of playing with two forwards feels like a new signing, well untill I realised we have about two forwards.

Moyes has tried Vic and Jelavic together less than half a dozen times and quite often they'll both go chasing after the ball and leave no one in the box! Jela knows how to find space in the box. We need to set the team up to play to his strengths.

 

[billycopper]

Good OP, lots of food for thought for a new manager if he decides (and is able) to stick with the current crop of players.

However, most of us have seen enough of Naismith this season to see that he is not good enough for a top-half Premier League team. Even on those occasions where Fellaini might not have scored, he often dictated play, not something we could suggest about Naismith.

I think Naismith could be a good Brian McLair or Dirk Kuyt type player. His all round play might not be that sparkling but he knows where the goal is. It could potentially work with him on the right coming in at the back post to attack crosses from Baines and Pienaar, but we need to give him license to get into those positions. Felli could dictate play better from deeper where everything is in front of him rather than having his back to goal.

 

[billycopper]

The original post summed up absolutely everything wrong with David moyes as a manager. So ridiculously inflexible and set in his ways. I'm so excited to see a future with something different. 11 years of the same system (mainly long ball), we can bring unpredictability back to goodison.

If he goes to united and changes his ways completely, it's a massive slap in the face of our current players for me

Moyes said that it took him time to bring players in at Everton with the quality for him to play more expansive football. I'd be surprised if things didn't tighten up at United, at least initially, because he's cautious by nature. Once he relaxes into the job and the penny drops that the United fans want entertainment as well as results he could evolve his ways.

 

[billycopper]

I think Conor is a GOT member, tho' not sure how active he is.

But it'd be great to hear a player's view, now that there's no manager at the moment. Means there might be a bit of freedom to speak.

Personally, I'd like Conor, Vellios, Duffy & Barkley to get some decent game-time. From what I've seen, all look quite capable. But first-team experience is a must so we can see if that's really the case.

I think Anichebe has taken about 5 years to fully break through and, unless they are a force of nature like Rooney or we're short (Coleman), it would seem like that about the standard apprenticeship under Moyes. But how many players are going to want to settle for U21 games and a place on the bench until they're 23? Villa have thrown a lot of kids in all at once and very nearly got relegated but in a few years time I think those players will come good and they'll be so much stronger for their experiences. We seem to be too far the other way.

 

[Neiler]

Moyes has tried Vic and Jelavic together less than half a dozen times and quite often they'll both go chasing after the ball and leave no one in the box! Jela knows how to find space in the box. We need to set the team up to play to his strengths.

Very true mate, it's how you use your strikers as well, Moyes was a great advocate of defending from the front, we see other clubs allow their strikers focuss soley on the science of goal scoring, I.e. posititioning, movement, finding space. We focussed on work ethic, closing space and limiting the time defenders have. The forwards had to suit the system rather then the system trying to play to forwards strengths, we wasted the Yak, Saha and Johnson to the system. So will be interesting if a new manager has a different philosophey.

I have a feeling Danny Wellbeck will see a lot of game time at Utd next season!

 

[billycopper]

Very true mate, it's how you use your strikers as well, Moyes was a great advocate of defending from the front, we see other clubs allow their strikers focuss soley on the science of goal scoring, I.e. posititioning, movement, finding space. We focussed on work ethic, closing space and limiting the time defenders have. The forwards had to suit the system rather then the system trying to play to forwards strengths, we wasted the Yak, Saha and Johnson to the system. So will be interesting if a new manager has a different philosophey.

I have a feeling Danny Wellbeck will see a lot of game time at Utd next season!

I agree. It's difficult to think of many examples of forwards who do all the hard work and score lots of goals too. I suppose Suarez and Tevez are both pests for defenders. Maybe it's a latin thing? Jelavic and Yakubu are pretty languid. They don't have a lot of sprint in them and if they waste it chasing the ball into corners they don't have the legs to get away from a defender in the box.

 

[Christiffa25]

Moyes has never really had the luxury of playing players where there best suited. He will have that luxury at utd.

As for the youngsters, people get over excited about them and look at the positives whilst clearly ignoring the disadvantage's. and also have seen no where near enough of them to judge them properly.

Duffy is a prime example. Yes in the air he seems very strong. But he is very slow. A run of games (10) would most likely show up a host of flaws. That's not a dig at the lad, he's young and needs half to a full season on loan before he could seriously be expected to come in and replace jags, Distin or Heitinga.

Jnr showed in the Leeds game how ready he was not!
Barkley who by far is the most talented has shown several flaws. Again it's all down to experience but its a tough tough league to blood youngsters.

 

[Jags..class]

The only problems I have with Moyes is his loyalty to the players. Playing Fellaini in the hole, and I didn't like it when Moyes came out and told Mirallas need to toughen up, never see him come out and say Neville need to learn out to play football. Also didn't like It when he puts Naysmith on the right wing which made the fans turn on him.

 

[Christiffa25]

The only problems I have with Moyes is his loyalty to the players. Playing Fellaini in the hole, and I didn't like it when Moyes came out and told Mirallas need to toughen up, never see him come out and say Neville need to learn out to play football. Also didn't like It when he puts Naysmith on the right wing which made the fans turn on him.

Fellaini in the hole was a masterstroke early season. Should of realised teams had sussed out how to play against him there earlier tho....around Xmas fellaini was ineffective and ossie was knackered suffering on heavy pitches. Souls of been switched and stuck with it and used Barkley more replacing ossie of the bench IMO.

However I'm sure moyes has valid reason's that us mere fans wouldn't understand.

 

[Jags..class]

Fellaini in the hole was a masterstroke early season. Should of realised teams had sussed out how to play against him there earlier tho....around Xmas fellaini was ineffective and ossie was knackered suffering on heavy pitches. Souls of been switched and stuck with it and used Barkley more replacing ossie of the bench IMO.

However I'm sure moyes has valid reason's that us mere fans wouldn't understand.

Would love to know Moyes reasons, Fellaini came out and said he best position is the cm role and Moyes also knows this, so why the feck did Moyes do this when it was not working anymore. He was trying to turn Fellaini into Cahill for some reason.

 

[WA Toffee]

Duffy made 3 sub appearances.
Garbutt made 1 sub appearance.
Barkley started twice and came on 7 times.
Junior made 1 start.
Vellios came on 6 times.
Gueye started twice and came on 4 times.
Kennedy, McAleny, Stones and Lundstram didn't feature at all.

Compare it to the RS.
Kelly started 6 and came on once.
Coady started once and came on once.
Flanagan started once and came on once.
Wisdom started 19 times.
Shelvey started 18 times and came on 14 times.
Sterling started 22 and came on 14 times.
Ibe started once.
Suso started 12 and came on 8 times.
Sinclair came on once.
Morgan started twice and came on once.
Pacheco started twice and came on once.
Spearing started twice and came on once.
Robinson started 6 times.

Liverpool U21s were beaten 3-0 by United in the opposite semi-final to the one we lost 3-2 to Spurs. I don't see too much of a link between our U21 and our first team at the moment. If we're competing in the U21 league they have to be of a similar standard to the Liverpool players, so it can't be that they're not good enough.

So if we played more young players, we could have got 7th instead of 6th?

 

[Hibbosculturedrightboot]

When I saw the title, I thought this thread was about wonder bras. But clearly it ain't. *skulks out*

 

[Christiffa25]

So if we played more young players, we could have got 7th instead of 6th?

Haha....brilliant!!

It's funny what people come out saying, without actually thinking about what there saying!

 

[billycopper]

Moyes has never really had the luxury of playing players where there best suited. He will have that luxury at utd.

As for the youngsters, people get over excited about them and look at the positives whilst clearly ignoring the disadvantage's. and also have seen no where near enough of them to judge them properly.

Duffy is a prime example. Yes in the air he seems very strong. But he is very slow. A run of games (10) would most likely show up a host of flaws. That's not a dig at the lad, he's young and needs half to a full season on loan before he could seriously be expected to come in and replace jags, Distin or Heitinga.

Jnr showed in the Leeds game how ready he was not!
Barkley who by far is the most talented has shown several flaws. Again it's all down to experience but its a tough tough league to blood youngsters.

I think Moyes said that Duffy was very close to the first team and that's why he was hesitant to loan him out. But we would have needed injuries or suspensions to two of the players ahead of him for him to be even considered and I can only remember that happening once in recent years. Why not loan him out with a callback clause in case we do somehow lose two centrebacks?

Football, like a lot of things, is something that you learn from doing. Any young player coming into the side will make mistakes. I think we need to have a greater tolerance though. Barkley gave the ball away against Blackburn and wasn't seen again for another 18 months! It puts too much pressure on the youngsters that they have to play safe and not to express themselves. If Barkley had tried lobbing the 'keeper from the half way line like a young Beckham did he'd have probably got hauled straight off.