Last two transfer window transactions

[milks]

Hunterlaar and VDV, both sold today for £18m.

FFS KENWRONG

£18m Everton don't have.

Where's the problem?

 

[Neiler]

Take the tv money and the sales of talent like Rooney/Lescott/Johnson etc etc and the sale of assets like carparks, housing, Netherton academy...and God knows where we stand on Goodison Park's ownership. They put all their eggs in the stadium building basket and have failed twice. They've expected to grow the business from a nw facility and let the rest of the 'shop' go to rack and ruin. Dont believe me? Go and take a look at Elstone's evidence to the Kirkby Inquiry. You'll see in his own words how the club have failed to invest in the ground (worst record in the Premier League) and still struggle badly on the merchandising side of things.

You're pushing a very big boulder up a steep hill arguing the club has been performing up to snuff as a business. About the only two positives in ten years has been the L1 development and now this mooted annexe outside the Park End.

Thtas the split in TVPrem money/ and organic revenue in and arond 60/40% according to the books mate, you can post opinion and what not but its black and white (its intresting when you compare todays books with 2002). The income generated as a buissness without TV/Prem money has doubled since 2002 and to be honest has been on a steady trajectory upward in terms of trend, to be honest there are no sudden rises (ala Rooney and other player sales or capital assets being sold) It seems that most of thses outgoing go back into reinvesting in the club according to the books.

Though objectively i think there is certainly room for improvement, ever more so in the face of the new rules, the stadium issue remains a noose around our necks. From were we started from, i think the doubling of self generating revenue is a massive acheivement, but this year is going to be a big year and i hope the club use the levarage that has been built up in terms of success.

 

[Matt Damon]

The breakdown is 49 mill from Sky/Premir League and 31 mill from what the buissness makes, slightly harsh, it was 14 mill in 2002.

I dont really get the the whole we should be guilty for the TV money debate, if everyone gets the same then surely it should be looked at in comparrison to our performence on and of the feild with other clubs. Since we're not debt ridden and our Turnover to wages ratio is prob one of thebest in the league and we have gotten Eruope more often then not, does that mean we manage our income and indeed TV income better then most other clubs?

You've got him there Neiler lad.

He's toast.

 

[davek]

Thtas the split in TVPrem money/ and organic revenue in and arond 60/40% according to the books mate, you can post opinion and what not but its black and white (its intresting when you compare todays books with 2002). The income generated as a buissness without TV/Prem money has doubled since 2002 and to be honest has been on a steady trajectory upward in terms of trend, to be honest there are no sudden rises (ala Rooney and other player sales or capital assets being sold) It seems that most of thses outgoing go back into reinvesting in the club according to the books.

Though objectively i think there is certainly room for improvement, ever more so in the face of the new rules, the stadium issue remains a noose around our necks. From were we started from, i think the doubling of self generating revenue is a massive acheivement, but this year is going to be a big year and i hope the club use the levarage that has been built up in terms of success.

Mate, stop it, you're really begining to embarass yourself here (and, to be honest, I dont mind you as a poster, so it isn't pleasurable to show you up).


Far from proving we've grown as a business, the club have cratered in that respect. Here's the scores on the doors from the club accounts themselves using 2002 and 2009 figures:

Of the £38M Turnover in 2002 £19M came from broadcasting (50% of T/O). By 2009 Turnover was at £79M with tv money accounting for £48M (a rise to 61% of T/O)...ie, we're becoming more and more relaint on this revenue, not less so.

As for other forms of revenue:

2002 revenue from sponsorship, advertising, merchandising, catering and 'other commercial activities' = £6M. By 2009 this increased to £9M.

The club has barely grown in a commercial sense. Where it's fallen back on is ticket increases between the two points (2002 to 2009): In 2002 gate receipts were £13M; by 2009 they were £22M. If you want to call simply hiking the price of a ticket a wonderful commercial success story and add the difference to the true commercial total, be my guest. But you're kidding no one but yourself...and possibly Mr Matt Damon.

Lol.

 

[Brownie]

It's great that you don't mind Neiler as a poster dave. Only a couple of steps to go before you find him 'alright', might not even be too long before you 'quite like' him.

 

[davek]

It's great that you don't mind Neiler as a poster dave. Only a couple of steps to go before you find him 'alright', might not even be too long before you 'quite like' him.

Point of order: 'dont mind' outranks 'alright' and 'quite like' in the hierarchy of...erm...'not bad fellerness'.

Besides - you should see the abusive PMs I've had off him.

I'm like ******* Ghandi on here.

 

[Neiler]

Mate, stop it, you're really begining to embarass yourself here (and, to be honest, I dont mind you as a poster, so it isn't pleasurable to show you up).


Far from proving we've grown as a business, the club have cratered in that respect. Here's the scores on the doors from the club accounts themselves using 2002 and 2009 figures:

Of the £38M Turnover in 2002 £19M came from broadcasting (50% of T/O). By 2009 Turnover was at £79M with tv money accounting for £48M (a rise to 61% of T/O)...ie, we're becoming more and more relaint on this revenue, not less so.

As for other forms of revenue:

2002 revenue from sponsorship, advertising, merchandising, catering and 'other commercial activities' = £6M. By 2009 this increased to £9M.

The club has barely grown in a commercial sense. Where it's fallen back on is ticket increases between the two points (2002 to 2009): In 2002 gate receipts were £13M; by 2009 they were £22M. If you want to call simply hiking the price of a ticket a wonderful commercial success story and add the difference to the true commercial total, be my guest. But you're kidding no one but yourself...and possibly Mr Matt Damon.

Lol.

There was no need to write all that mate you just posted the same figures i did and seperated them out so they look like smaller figures, like i said the split between TV Vs What we make oursleves is 60/40%.

If your going to argue about turnover being all TV cash then at least know the figures and the split.

Its a ridiculous point anyway as everyone receives their share which cancles it all out in comparrison, surely given our success we just manage ours better.

 

[chicoazul]

I'm like ******* Ghandi on here.

Hahahaha.

 

[davek]

There was no need to write all that mate you just posted the same figures i did and seperated them out so they look like smaller figures, like i said the split between TV Vs What we make oursleves is 60/40%.

If your going to argue about turnover being all TV cash then at least no the figures and the split.

Its a ridiculous point anyway as everyone receives their share which cancles it all out in comparrison, surely given our success we just manage ours better.

Ok, forget tv money/T/O ratios, and while we're at it lets take out ticketsales. Here's what you wrote yesterday:

im pretty happy with how much the buissness has grown over the past 8 years,

I think you can safely say that a growth in commercial revenue in 8 years of £3M is not up to snuff. That's the key figures to use in determining business performance (not 'given' streams like tv or gate receipts).

The club is gash at commercial enterprise.

Now, you could talk about the club's recognition of that in terms of them seeking a new stadium to maxmize revenue, and you'd be correct. It has hampered that side of things not securing a new stadium...but then you just open up the thorny question of who was to blame that two stadium schemes fell through....and they were both littered with atrocious business decisions too as far as I and lots of other people are concerned. But none of that detracts from the central point that the club's commercial growth has been abysmal...especially when you consider the era of easy credit that just came to a close.

 

[Brownie]

dave's facebook account is the only one in the world that has a dislike button.

 

[Neiler]

Ok, forget tv money/T/O ratios, and while we're at it lets take out ticketsales. Here's what you wrote yesterday:



I think you can safely say that a growth in commercial revenue in 8 years of £3M is not up to snuff. That's the key figures to use in determining business performance (not 'given' streams like tv or gate receipts).

The club is gash at commercial enterprise.

Now, you could talk about the club's recognition of that in terms of them seeking a new stadium to maxmize revenue, and you'd be correct. It has hampered that side of things not securing a new stadium...but then you just open up the thorny question of who was to blame that two stadium schemes fell through....and they were both littered with atrocious business decisions too as far as I and lots of other people are concerned. But none of that detracts from the central point that the club's commercial growth has been abysmal...especially when you consider the era of easy credit that just came to a close.

So what your saying is "Forget everything and allow me to focuss in on the 10 mill of an 80 mill turover i can give out about"

To be honest you have a point - it took a while though for me to help you find it mate!, excludeing gate, prizemoney and Sky cash, this is an area of potential we have to improve on. I would draw your attention to the fact that the kitbag deal didnt appear in last years accounts so that shouldbeintrestingif nothing else to provide detail, other deals are due for renogtiation this year and i would like to think we should be drawing similar sums then our peers in the league. Equally we are hampered by the stadium and corporate facilites or facilites in general. I would think the club neglected much of its commercial activity in the Kirkby focus, in fact its pretty evident, when you consider what we earn compared to our peers.

Signs seem hopefull though, at least that this is an area of potential growth, the Liverpool 2 shop in the City centre, better online purchaseing facilites, new commercial deals - kitbag etc, the new commercial building planned for Goodison and a number of existing deal to be rengotiated

To be honest though i cant see an increase of over £10 -£15mill at maximum - unless we develop a new ground. 10mill commercially isnt great for a club our size, but it has to be remembered that its 10 mill out of a fairly brilliant turnover of 80mill - considering our starting point, the level of inherited debt and lack of commercial revenue.

 

[davek]

So what your saying is "Forget everything and allow me to focuss in on the 10 mill of an 80 mill turover i can give out about"

To be honest you have a point - it took a while though for me to help you find it mate!, excludeing gate, prizemoney and Sky cash, this is an area of potential we have to improve on. I would draw your attention to the fact that the kitbag deal didnt appear in last years accounts so that shouldbeintrestingif nothing else to provide detail, other deals are due for renogtiation this year and i would like to think we should be drawing similar sums then our peers in the league. Equally we are hampered by the stadium and corporate facilites or facilites in general. I would think the club neglected much of its commercial activity in the Kirkby focus, in fact its pretty evident, when you consider what we earn compared to our peers.

Signs seem hopefull though, at least that this is an area of potential growth, the Liverpool 2 shop in the City centre, better online purchaseing facilites, new commercial deals - kitbag etc, the new commercial building planned for Goodison and a number of existing deal to be rengotiated

To be honest though i cant see an increase of over £10 -£15mill at maximum - unless we develop a new ground. 10mill commercially isnt great for a club our size, but it has to be remembered that its 10 mill out of a fairly brilliant turnover of 80mill - considering our starting point, the level of inherited debt and lack of commercial revenue.

That's what I said in the last post: neglecting the commercial side to concentrate on two schemes they screwed up are part and parcel of business failure.

We wait and see how the new merchandising deal breaks down, for sure. And I've already stated that L1 was a good move and the annexe (if and when) will aslo be welcome. But you were the one putting forward the 2002-2009 time frame. We analyse what is rather than what might be, therefore...and it's found wanting.

You seem to want to defend the indefensible. That's ok, though. Loyalty to The Leader is important to you, I know.

 

[Neiler]

That's what I said in the last post: neglecting the commercial side to concentrate on two schemes they screwed up are part and parcel of business failure.

We wait and see how the new merchandising deal breaks down, for sure. And I've already stated that L1 was a good move and the annexe (if and when) will aslo be welcome. But you were the one putting forward the 2002-2009 time frame. We analyse what is rather than what might be, therefore...and it's found wanting.

You seem to want to defend the indefensible. That's ok, though. Loyalty to The Leader is important to you, I know.

Your mad mate, i agreed on one point (the commercial end) as an area we could target further for potential as you had nothing else - i even threw you a bone, your saying the buissness has been run in the gorund.

Your talking of a buissness that went from generating 38.2mill in 2002 and in 2009 generated 79.7mill. Crazy!

 

[davek]

Your mad mate, i agreed on one point (the commercial end) as an area we could target further for potential as you had nothing else - i even threw you a bone, your saying the buissness has been run in the gorund.

Your talking of a buissness that went from generating 38.2mill in 2002 and in 2009 generated 79.7mill. Crazy!

Throw it to the club instead, they need it.

<shakes head>

 

[Philw]

Point of order: 'dont mind' outranks 'alright' and 'quite like' in the hierarchy of...erm...'not bad fellerness'.

Besides - you should see the abusive PMs I've had off him.

I'm like ******* Ghandi on here.

Hahahaha.

What Chico said!!

dave's facebook account is the only one in the world that has a dislike button.

Can I like this??