Current Affairs Labour and Anti Semitism.......

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tsubaki said:
Maybe not, but it clearly happened in most polls conducted before the actual election. You can even see its effect in your posts, and Roydo's #715 above in which Corbyn is a candidate for "Most useless Labour leader ever" (as if Ramsay Macdonald, Michael Foot, Kinnock, Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband didn't exist).
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Did it though?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39856354

It ended up being closer than the polls said, sure, but all of them showed Corbyn/Labour on an upward trajectory and, as you can see from that link, a poll on 31 May showed the Tories short of a majority. The direction of travel was all positive for Labour - it was just the extent of it that was off.

As for "most useless Labour leader ever", he clearly isn't - the GE performance alone got rid of that possibility immediately. But that's not saying he's a good one.
 
Tubey said:
Did it though?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39856354

It ended up being closer than the polls said, sure, but all of them showed Corbyn/Labour on an upward trajectory and, as you can see from that link, a poll on 31 May showed the Tories short of a majority. The direction of travel was all positive for Labour - it was just the extent of it that was off.

As for "most useless Labour leader ever", he clearly isn't - the GE performance alone got rid of that possibility immediately. But that's not saying he's a good one.
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They did show an improvement, but the point that one keeps coming back to is that people were more likely to realise that what they are asked matters the closer they got to the election. As you said, the quality of Corbyn's election - which was in stark contrast to how he was portrayed - was something that people discovered they liked about him. When that was gone, his favourability ratings declined and people treated to trying to remember the last thing they were told about him in the papers when answering pollsters (as his favourability ratings over the past two years suggest - (edit) just look at the five things people most often say negatively about him).

roydo said:
The context was against the opposition, (sic), he has been up against. Hardly a vintage Tory target is it?
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No, but the quality of the Government is not the only thing affecting the standard of opposition he has to face - there is the media and his own party as well. If you want a parallel, then theres really only the 1929-1935 era where most (all) of the media backed the National Government and Labour were in an utter mess (thanks to Macdonald's betrayal), or 1983.
 
tsubaki said:
No, but the quality of the Government is not the only thing affecting the standard of opposition he has to face - there is the media and his own party as well. If you want a parallel, then theres really only the 1929-1935 era where most (all) of the media backed the National Government and Labour were in an utter mess (thanks to Macdonald's betrayal), or 1983.
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I will happily concede to your obvious knowledge of Labour Party history.

I will also say that if Corbyn goes against May in a GE, and loses (again), he will be remembered as a failed leader of monumental proportions.

I struggle to see why you would think otherwise.
 
roydo said:
I will happily concede to your obvious knowledge of Labour Party history.

I will also say that if Corbyn goes against May in a GE, and loses (again), he will be remembered as a failed leader of monumental proportions.

I struggle to see why you would think otherwise.
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He deserves another election - no more, no less. Were he to lose, his legacy (among serious-minded people) would be more mixed than that because he saved the Party in 2017, and made it significantly more viable for the future
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abelard said:
Were he to lose, his legacy (among serious-minded people) would be more mixed than that because he saved the Party in 2017, and made it significantly more viable for the future
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You really mean people who agree with you. Ergo, echo chamber. If that floats your boat, and everyone else is wrong, fine. But.

The most successful Labour Party was led by Tony Blair. Fact.
 
roydo said:
You really mean people who agree with you. Ergo, echo chamber.
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No, I just meant people who are able to take a balanced look, rather than either froth at the mouth about terrorism, or accuse anyone who dare critique the Dear Leader (which, if you look through this thread, includes me) of heresy

I should have been more clear
 
abelard said:
No, I just meant people who are able to take a balanced look, rather than either froth at the mouth about terrorism, or accuse anyone who dare critique the Dear Leader (which, if you look through this thread, includes me) of heresy

I should have been more clear
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I think I take a balanced view, and I see a popular leader, amongst his supporters, but one who just does not resonate beyond that field.

Doesnt with me, who is exactly who he should try to. But that will be my fault, not his.
 
Caolam said:
The state of British politics is shocking. Surely we must be approaching the time were you need to prove you are not a buck eejit before you get to vote.
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I was with you until the last two words, where I would have deleted ‘to vote’ and inserted ‘to lead a party’.......
 
roydo said:
I think I take a balanced view, and I see a popular leader, amongst his supporters, but one who just does not resonate beyond that field.

Doesnt with me, who is exactly who he should try to. But that will be my fault, not his.
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I’ve said this many times before, there are labour voters and conservative voters and their votes will not change. There are the some of us who will decide who will win. Corbyn doesn’t really appeal to those who are king makers......
 
peteblue said:
I’ve said this many times before, there are labour voters and conservative voters and their votes will not change. There are the some of us who will decide who will win. Corbyn doesn’t really appeal to those who are king makers......
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Of course he doesn't; he won't give you anything.
 
peteblue said:
I’ve said this many times before, there are labour voters and conservative voters and their votes will not change. There are the some of us who will decide who will win. Corbyn doesn’t really appeal to those who are king makers......
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The king maker has been Rupert Murdoch since the days of Thatcher
 
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