Current Affairs Labour and Anti Semitism.......

[tsubaki]

I said I know what it is, and it very much is synonymous with them.

Regardless of whether you think the Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists, for the leader of the Labour party to be doing something like that is frighteningly stupid politically.

Didn't it cross his mind once to think "you know what? If I want to be in power to help the less well off in society in the UK, maybe this isn't the best photo op to be agreeing to?"

That is a good one - claim you knew what it was about, then say "Regardless of whether you think the Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists...".

Can you at least accept the sign has been adopted by them because of the massacre of more than six hundred people?

 

[Tubey]

We literally got 40% of the popular vote, the highest increase in vote share since 1945.

I mean, we can criticise his leadership on so many other issues - but instead we're talking about non-issues.

Because he's an amazing underdog campaigner on the General Election warpath. I've said this repeatedly. He loves the underdog role; relishes it.

But ask him to lead a party day to day and not shoot himself in the foot the rest of the time? Seemingly an impossible task.

There's no shame in looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Number_25]

Because he's an amazing underdog campaigner on the General Election warpath. I've said this repeatedly. He loves the underdog role; relishes it.

But ask him to lead a party day to day and not shoot himself in the foot the rest of the time? Seemingly an impossible task.

There's no shame in looking at the bigger picture.

He's an amazing campaigner because his ideals and ideology stems in the belief that politics is a tool to push forward our species.

 

[Tubey]

That is a good one - claim you knew what it was about, then say "Regardless of whether you think the Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists...".

Can you at least accept the sign has been adopted by them because of the massacre of more than six hundred people?

I was referring to them being literally given the label of terrorists by Egypt and being massively controversial in general.

I've said I know what it is about - yes, that is the origin of it. And it literally makes no difference politically, because politically it insinuates support of the Muslim Brotherhood as an institution. Which the leader of a political party in the UK shouldn't be touching with a barge pole.

 

[Number_25]

I was referring to them being literally given the label of terrorists by Egypt and being massively controversial in general.

I've said I know what it is about - yes, that is the origin of it. And it literally makes no difference politically, because politically it insinuates support of the Muslim Brotherhood as an institution. Which the leader of a political party in the UK shouldn't be touching with a barge pole.

My goodness.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Again though, just because Johnson is a cock doesn't mean Corbyn isn't. That isn't a defence; it is false equivalency - "but what about this!"

Only I clearly stated an actual defence, I mentioned Johnson merely to counter your silly Trump equivalence

 

[tsubaki]

I was referring to them being literally given the label of terrorists by Egypt and being massively controversial in general.

I've said I know what it is about - yes, that is the origin of it. And it literally makes no difference politically, because politically it insinuates support of the Muslim Brotherhood as an institution. Which the leader of a political party in the UK shouldn't be touching with a barge pole.

Tubey, they were elected in a contest seen as free and fair and were removed from office by a military coup that resulted in hundreds dead and thousands imprisoned.

Them "being literally given the label of terrorists" by the people who actually did the repression, killings and whatnot is not something you should just accept.

 

[superblue123]

Please can you take the time to find out what actually happened before commenting in future.

The raid in 1985 hit the PLO HQ in Tunis (ie: a country that Israel was not in conflict with), killing at least 15 Tunisian civilians and wounding dozens more - in addition to the 56 Palestinians killed. It was that bad that even the Yanks condemned it and didn't block a Security Council resolution blaming Israel in the UN, and at least one authorative account of the raid (Bergman's book "Rise and Kill First") claims that the only senior PLP leader killed was a moderate who had actually been negotiating with Israel.

As for the Paris killings, that was actually the murder of Asef Bseiso in 1992 (forgive me for expanding on an answer given previously). Bseiso was a high ranking PLO member but the link to Munich has never been expanded upon (indeed the Israelis denied killing him at first, may have taken him off the list of people to kill and it happened twenty years after the Munich murders). What we do know is that Bseiso was one of the main links between the PLO and various Western intelligence agencies, which was perhaps a more important reason for his removal.

I clearly referred in my original post to Israel targetting the PLO HQ in Tunis - but thank you for providing the extra information.

As for Bseiso - not only was he a high ranking PLO member; he was also the Head of Intelligence and it is assumed by much of the Israeli intelligence community that he was a key part of the planning for Munich (see Aaron Klein's book). Bsesio was also linked with the 1973 attempted attack on an Israeli airliner in Rome. If we forget the whataboutery of whether he did or did not lay a wreath for Bsesio; he placed Bsesio in the same light as those killed in the Israeli bombing in Tunis. Are they equatable?

 

[Tubey]

Tubey, they were elected in a contest seen as free and fair and were removed from office by a military coup that resulted in hundreds dead and thousands imprisoned.

Them "being literally given the label of terrorists" by the people who actually did the repression, killings and whatnot is not something you should just accept.

I get that, that's fine - yet politically it doesn't matter. That's the harsh truth - Mr. and Mrs. Swingvoter in middle England won't care about that explanation.

 

[superblue123]

We literally got 40% of the popular vote, the highest increase in vote share since 1945.

I mean, we can criticise his leadership on so many other issues - but instead we're talking about non-issues.

These are not non-issues unfortunately. Corbyn, the great man himself, our Leader, may he reign for eternity, has said that the Labour party has a problem with anti-Semitism. Like it or not, you cannot denounce these as non-issues or smears against the leadership - to do so makes you part of the problem of trying to eradicate anti-semitism that is rife on the Left (and across society).

You can say that less than 1% of Labour members have been expelled for anti-semtism - but the fact is the Leader has done next to nothing to eradicate anti-semitsm, Labour MPs have been suspended for anti-semitism, members of the NEC have been suspended for anti-semitism, councellors, prospective candidates and labour party members have all been suspended for anti-semitism. This is a problem that Labour have and is not a non-issue.

 

[tsubaki]

I get that, that's fine - yet politically it doesn't matter. That's the harsh truth - Mr. and Mrs. Swingvoter in middle England won't care about that explanation.

I get that is a largely accurate statement, but isn't that precisely why those people should be told the truth?

I mean we know the Muslim Brotherhood isn't a terror organization, we know that they have a grievance that everyone (especially Leave voters) could appreciate, we know hundreds of them were killed in the coup by a government that is by any definition illegitimate. Why would we let the lies - many of them paid-for lies - about them continue and even worse be used to attack our politicians?

 

[tsubaki]

I clearly referred in my original post to Israel targetting the PLO HQ in Tunis - but thank you for providing the extra information.

As for Bseiso - not only was he a high ranking PLO member; he was also the Head of Intelligence and it is assumed by much of the Israeli intelligence community that he was a key part of the planning for Munich (see Aaron Klein's book). Bsesio was also linked with the 1973 attempted attack on an Israeli airliner in Rome. If we forget the whataboutery of whether he did or did not lay a wreath for Bsesio; he placed Bsesio in the same light as those killed in the Israeli bombing in Tunis. Are they equatable?

Even Klein acknowledged that Bseiso got took off the Munich list and was talking to Western intelligence agencies though - and for all the lengthy and well-written description of the assassination he never actually says what Bseiso was meant to have done with regards to Munich.

Now I have no idea what Bseiso did or did not to with regards to Munich either, but given the facts about it that Klein accepts should lead anyone to accept that it cannot have been that much of an involvement. His killing was probably more to do with weakening the PLO.

 

[Number_25]

These are not non-issues unfortunately. Corbyn, the great man himself, our Leader, may he reign for eternity, has said that the Labour party has a problem with anti-Semitism. Like it or not, you cannot denounce these as non-issues or smears against the leadership - to do so makes you part of the problem of trying to eradicate anti-semitism that is rife on the Left (and across society).

You can say that less than 1% of Labour members have been expelled for anti-semtism - but the fact is the Leader has done next to nothing to eradicate anti-semitsm, Labour MPs have been suspended for anti-semitism, members of the NEC have been suspended for anti-semitism, councellors, prospective candidates and labour party members have all been suspended for anti-semitism. This is a problem that Labour have and is not a non-issue.

Given the fact that we're a party comprised of > 600,000 members, it's going to be a given that one or two cranks get involved. I've been a member since Blair, and the cranks to ordinary people ratio them days ways significantly higher than it is today.

Anti-Semitism is a cancer, and I welcome the NEC's to accept the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism.

 

[superblue123]

Even Klein acknowledged that Bseiso got took off the Munich list and was talking to Western intelligence agencies though - and for all the lengthy and well-written description of the assassination he never actually says what Bseiso was meant to have done with regards to Munich.

Now I have no idea what Bseiso did or did not to with regards to Munich either, but given the facts about it that Klein accepts should lead anyone to accept that it cannot have been that much of an involvement. His killing was probably more to do with weakening the PLO.

It is highly contentious - I agree and I guess that is the secrecy of Mossad in a nutshell. But with this and his links to Rome; Bseiso is not someone that can be honoured - or included in the same sentence as the victims of Tunis as Corbyn did in his Morning Star article. Just my opinion.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Just imagine being leader of the opposition at this time while the Tories are imploding all over the shop, he must feel like he has one hand on the PM job. All you have to do is instruct your party not to do silly things; no affairs with unsuitable sorts, don't discriminate, don't steal public funds, don't get caught taking drugs and whatever you do, don't have your picture taken at a ceremony that honours terrorists - especially ones that have targeted Jews (as we have a bit of an 'image' issue with that at the moment).

But of course it is difficult trying to control the actions of hundreds of people, all you can do is lead by example and hope that the party follow suit...