2018/19 Kieran Dowell

[Lanolin]

That would be amazing. I really hope we have that kind of vision and coaching ability now. If it doesn't work out, fine, but at least we should be telling our young players what they should aim for :
e.g. DCL - Kane or Aguero (CALM DOWN I KNOW HE'S NOT THAT GOOD. I'm talking about role models and watching videos etc)
e.g. Kenny to follow Coleman, Davies.....

With the best will in the world though, why say it then? I just don't get why people constantly need to talk about the very best and then say they're not saying these players can reach those levels. Use different examples then! Ones that actually make the point you're trying to get across rather than making everybody think you're comparing them to the players you're talking about.

I don't think you really need vision and coaching ability to be able to say to a young player 'be boss if you could do what Aguero can do you know'. It's just obvious surely, it doesn't even need to be said.

 

[Philw]

With the best will in the world though, why say it then? I just don't get why people constantly need to talk about the very best and then say they're not saying these players can reach those levels. Use different examples then! Ones that actually make the point you're trying to get across rather than making everybody think you're comparing them to the players you're talking about.

I don't think you really need vision and coaching ability to be able to say to a young player 'be boss if you could do what Aguero can do you know'. It's just obvious surely, it doesn't even need to be said.

I think he's more talking about studying that players game and learning from it. They are some of the best strikers in the world, that's who someone like DCL should be looking to emulate, even if he is unlikely to/never will attain that level. You're not gonna tell him to try and be more like Cenk are you, just because that's a more attainable level?

 

[Lanolin]

I think he's more talking about studying that players game and learning from it. They are some of the best strikers in the world, that's who someone like DCL should be looking to emulate, even if he is unlikely to/never will attain that level. You're not gonna tell him to try and be more like Cenk are you, just because that's a more attainable level?

No, but I've already addressed that point in the post you're replying to haven't I? If we really think it takes 'vision and coaching ability' to say why don't you try to emulate someone good, I think our expectations of the coaching staff (and the players themselves) are quite low.

 

[Philw]

No, but I've already addressed that point in the post you're replying to haven't I? If we really think it takes 'vision and coaching ability' to say why don't you try to emulate someone good, I think our expectations of the coaching staff (and the players themselves) are quite low.

Well, I would assume/hope that the coaches might not specifically randomly pick Kane/Aguero, but someone who's game is a good fit for the player in question (eg not Aguero for DCL). I'm assuming APN just picked those names as an example. Also the 'vision and ability' the he mentioned was not in relation to picking someone to emulate, but in coaching them up to that level.

 

[catcherintherye]

With the best will in the world though, why say it then? I just don't get why people constantly need to talk about the very best and then say they're not saying these players can reach those levels. Use different examples then! Ones that actually make the point you're trying to get across rather than making everybody think you're comparing them to the players you're talking about.

I don't think you really need vision and coaching ability to be able to say to a young player 'be boss if you could do what Aguero can do you know'. It's just obvious surely, it doesn't even need to be said.

It's difficult isn't it, as often when people try to liken young players to a specific player they try to pick a well known example. I've done it myself when talking about under 18's, it doesn't mean they are at that level but more it's just who they remind you of.

I do think though, as players get a lot of exposure in the first team it becomes a little lazy to keep doing this. I'd also say with Calvert Lewin the comparisons of Aguero/Kane just don't fit at any level. He's not on their level, barring a minor miracle won't be and also doesn't replicate their style.

For me the best comparison for Calvert Lewin is more Marcus Bent. I do think he has the aerial ability potential of Duncan Ferguson too, but Ferguson had a lot better understanding of how to utilise it. The way he attacked balls was very natural whereas Calvert Lewin it looks a lot more forced. It's by no means a bad player though, a mixture of what Bent offered plus aspects of Ferguson's game would be very handy for us.

 

[Lanolin]

Well, I would assume/hope that the coaches might not specifically randomly pick Kane/Aguero, but someone who's game is a good fit for the player in question (eg not Aguero for DCL). I'm assuming APN just picked those names as an example. Also the 'vision and ability' the he mentioned was not in relation to picking someone to emulate, but in coaching them up to that level.

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at originally though. Don't just pick obvious names as an example if you don't want people to pick up on the fact that it's unlikely a player can emulate them. Either carry on using the obvious examples that don't really have any relevance and just accept that people will call you out, or think about it a bit more and pick examples that work for the player you're talking about.

 

[Lanolin]

It's difficult isn't it, as often when people try to liken young players to a specific player they try to pick a well known example. I've done it myself when talking about under 18's, it doesn't mean they are at that level but more it's just who they remind you of.

I do think though, as players get a lot of exposure in the first team it becomes a little lazy to keep doing this. I'd also say with Calvert Lewin the comparisons of Aguero/Kane just don't fit at any level. He's not on their level, barring a minor miracle won't be and also doesn't replicate their style.

For me the best comparison for Calvert Lewin is more Marcus Bent. I do think he has the aerial ability potential of Duncan Ferguson too, but Ferguson had a lot better understanding of how to utilise it. The way he attacked balls was very natural whereas Calvert Lewin it looks a lot more forced. It's by no means a bad player though, a mixture of what Bent offered plus aspects of Ferguson's game would be very handy for us.

Yeah that's exactly what I meant. It's fine for youth teams when you're trying to give an idea of what type of player someone is, but just using examples of the world's best players regardless of whether they bear any resemblance to the player in question serves no real purpose, and will always lead to people pointing out why it won't work.

 

[Philw]

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at originally though. Don't just pick obvious names as an example if you don't want people to pick up on the fact that it's unlikely a player can emulate them. Either carry on using the obvious examples that don't really have any relevance and just accept that people will call you out, or think about it a bit more and pick examples that work for the player you're talking about.

Tbf, I think he was just thinking about the concept, as opposed to specifically suggesting he thought those players were a good idea. Or maybe I'm just giving him too much credit!!

 

[APN_EFC]

With the best will in the world though, why say it then? I just don't get why people constantly need to talk about the very best and then say they're not saying these players can reach those levels. Use different examples then! Ones that actually make the point you're trying to get across rather than making everybody think you're comparing them to the players you're talking about.

I don't think you really need vision and coaching ability to be able to say to a young player 'be boss if you could do what Aguero can do you know'. It's just obvious surely, it doesn't even need to be said.

Yeah thats true actually. TBH I do like to compare them to the best, and do that to at work too, trying to compare my business to the best in the world. It's just that this forum has conditioned me to not be too ambitous. Sad, really.

 

[blueblue]

It's difficult isn't it, as often when people try to liken young players to a specific player they try to pick a well known example. I've done it myself when talking about under 18's, it doesn't mean they are at that level but more it's just who they remind you of.

I do think though, as players get a lot of exposure in the first team it becomes a little lazy to keep doing this. I'd also say with Calvert Lewin the comparisons of Aguero/Kane just don't fit at any level. He's not on their level, barring a minor miracle won't be and also doesn't replicate their style.

For me the best comparison for Calvert Lewin is more Marcus Bent. I do think he has the aerial ability potential of Duncan Ferguson too, but Ferguson had a lot better understanding of how to utilise it. The way he attacked balls was very natural whereas Calvert Lewin it looks a lot more forced. It's by no means a bad player though, a mixture of what Bent offered plus aspects of Ferguson's game would be very handy for us.

DCL reminds me of a young Graeme Sharp, good in the air, good on the ground, works hard for the team, can score goals but will never be prolific.
I think it is very hard to predict exactly how good DCL will be, but his rise to Premiership striker from Division one youth player has been rapid.

 

[Chewbacca]

Sharp wasn’t prolific in a poor team but scored hatfuls in a good side. So would DCL.

 

[MikeH72]

Sharp wasn’t prolific in a poor team but scored hatfuls in a good side. So would DCL.

The thing is with DCL, he never scores the poacher’s goals. The tap-ins are what separate an 8 goal a season striker from an 18 goal one, it’s a skill in itself to know where to run and when, these chances don’t just fall to you. I don’t think that instinct can ever really be taught.

 

[toffeejack]

It's difficult isn't it, as often when people try to liken young players to a specific player they try to pick a well known example. I've done it myself when talking about under 18's, it doesn't mean they are at that level but more it's just who they remind you of.

I do think though, as players get a lot of exposure in the first team it becomes a little lazy to keep doing this. I'd also say with Calvert Lewin the comparisons of Aguero/Kane just don't fit at any level. He's not on their level, barring a minor miracle won't be and also doesn't replicate their style.

For me the best comparison for Calvert Lewin is more Marcus Bent. I do think he has the aerial ability potential of Duncan Ferguson too, but Ferguson had a lot better understanding of how to utilise it. The way he attacked balls was very natural whereas Calvert Lewin it looks a lot more forced. It's by no means a bad player though, a mixture of what Bent offered plus aspects of Ferguson's game would be very handy for us.

Especially for £1.5m, he's been a massive bargain and he could become someone who can chip in with 15 goals in a season, he got double figures last season?

But imo, he'll never be good enough to be a regular starter here, which is fine, we always need a squad. He just lacks that killer instinct and reaction which you can't really teach. We put good balls in, and unlike ferguson, as you say, he doesn't attack it with full confidence, he's always tentative. I keep criticising for the big chances he misses and there's every chance that may develop, I mean he scored the winning goal in the world cup final.

But I think he's improved a lot this season, I see a lot of promise, which wasn't there for me last season.

 

[LostLegend]

Especially for £1.5m, he's been a massive bargain and he could become someone who can chip in with 15 goals in a season, he got double figures last season?

But imo, he'll never be good enough to be a regular starter here, which is fine, we always need a squad. He just lacks that killer instinct and reaction which you can't really teach. We put good balls in, and unlike ferguson, as you say, he doesn't attack it with full confidence, he's always tentative. I keep criticising for the big chances he misses and there's every chance that may develop, I mean he scored the winning goal in the world cup final.

But I think he's improved a lot this season, I see a lot of promise, which wasn't there for me last season.

Definitely added a lot more to his game this season.

The derby game is a prime example. He had very little to work with given how frenetic the game was and going head to head with Van Dijk, but he still managed some very clever flick-ons and link-up play throughput.

As has been said, I don’t think he’ll ever be a 20+ per season striker, but there’s enough promise and development there to suggest he’ll become a very solid Premier League quality player.

Would like to see him add more aggression to his game and use his size more against opponents. I reckon that would add so much to his game.

 

[toffeejack]

Definitely added a lot more to his game this season.

The derby game is a prime example. He had very little to work with given how frenetic the game was and going head to head with Van Dijk, but he still managed some very clever flick-ons and link-up play throughput.

As has been said, I don’t think he’ll ever be a 20+ per season striker, but there’s enough promise and development there to suggest he’ll become a very solid Premier League quality player.

Would like to see him add more aggression to his game and use his size more against opponents. I reckon that would add so much to his game.

.

All comes with age, he's still filling out and ferguson is a great coach to have to learn that from.