2018/19 Kieran Dowell

[davids]

His urgency to get to the ball is his downfall. I’ve seen most of his televised games when on loan and he can pass but being half a yard late at the top level will kill you every time. It’s true he hasn’t had much of chance to reveal that at the top level but I bet it’s obvious in training. I could see it clearly in the level below.

Prem just appears too quick and intense for him,pity as he has talent.

 

[Lanolin]

His urgency to get to the ball is his downfall. I’ve seen most of his televised games when on loan and he can pass but being half a yard late at the top level will kill you every time. It’s true he hasn’t had much of chance to reveal that at the top level but I bet it’s obvious in training. I could see it clearly in the level below.

This is the key point in the whole thing for me. I'm not just talking about Dowell but all the talk of 'how will we ever know if we don't give him a try' and 'i'm amazed we've never tried to get him to change position' ignores the fact that the people (and different people at that) working with him every day have never seemed to feel that he's worth a run in the team. At some point Occam's razor has to come into it, is it more likely that all the coaches and managers he's had are wrong, or that a fan who's seen him a handful of times is wrong?

 

[APN_EFC]

I agree with Davies. I think his problem is that he is an old fashioned centre midfielder from the days when we played 442. He is a bit of an all rounder and decent at most things, without excelling at any. It's my worry for him in an age where specialists are preferred.

Dowell, on the other hand, does have the specialist qualities. His main problem is that he drifts out of games. A lot of people call him lazy, but he really isn't. He just has a languid style that makes him look lazy. He normally puts a defensive shift in from a covering point of view, but he is not a tackler so again people say he doesn't do his defensive duties. His skillset suggest he is suited to an attacking midfielder. But he doesn't get involved enough when he plays in those positions. I compare him with the likes of Foden who plays a similar position, and he buzzes about and is able to regularly get on the ball in positions to cause damage in a way that Dowell can't. You can have all the skill in the world, but if you don't get the opportunity to use it, it means nothing.

I've seen him play a deeper central midfield role for England U21s a couple of times, and he also played there in the league cup against Rotherham but I didn't see that game. In one game against Scotland, he actually played as deep lying playmaker (in a game England dominated possession) and he ran the game. I've never seen him so involved for the full 90 but it also showed a side to his game I'd never seen before. Could he do that for us? I don't know, but I would like to see us at least give him a go there. He has a special talent and if we can find a way to harness that AND get him involved in games it's worth a go IMO.

He looks a bit like a luxury Le Tissier (but Le Tissier scored loads) or Ozil when he's ineffective - I can't imagine him being carried in a modern team unless he is prepared to track back, buzz around as you say or get involved more. It's not enough to have a sweet left foot.

Agree with most you say, and if he's got a special talent then hes worth a punt.
It's a fantasy to see young players all progress, but imagine if Bangingime, Dowell and Davies were all good, and actually progressed, there's a midfield 3 of the future - 3 very different and complementary players

 

[APN_EFC]

Dowell needs to remodel himself as a player with a work ethic.Surely he must see that's the glaring gap in his game.

Yeah exactly even Siggy is pressing and chasing.

 

[Strikinglyhandsome1]

ignores the fact that the people (and different people at that) working with him every day have never seemed to feel that he's worth a run in the team.

Virtually every manager I’ve ever heard picks their teams on training. It’s the one thing fans can’t factor into their assessment because we never see it. We do sometimes hear rumours or titbits.

In fact we often say ‘they must be good in training’ and the fact is they probably are training better than others and get selected.

 

[Barnfred 55]

He looks a bit like a luxury Le Tissier (but Le Tissier scored loads) or Ozil when he's ineffective - I can't imagine him being carried in a modern team unless he is prepared to track back, buzz around as you say or get involved more. It's not enough to have a sweet left foot.

Agree with most you say, and if he's got a special talent then hes worth a punt.
It's a fantasy to see young players all progress, but imagine if Bangingime, Dowell and Davies were all good, and actually progressed, there's a midfield 3 of the future - 3 very different and complementary players

Agree with all that apart from the tracking back which he already does. He always puts a decent defensive shift in. His languid style and the fact he doesn't run around throwing himself into tackles give the false impression that he is defensively lazy, but he really isn't.

 

[messymascot]

I think once people make their mind up about a player its very difficult to change. I would like to see him given a chance next season then it can be put to bed one way or the other. Unfortunately his best position is probably competing with the apparently undroppable Sigurdsson. The other position is on the right of a front 3. I think he isn't robust enough for a number 8 in our current system but if we were to change to a 4-3-3 with one 6 and two 8/10 he could play as one of the two 8/10. I also see Vlasic and possibly Davies being comfortable in there but would be very inexperienced if we played two of them.

 

[jceverton]

The Gomes that started for us I agree 100%. But I think it's fair to say that we haven't seen that player since the derby. Since he came into the team he has started every single premier league game, including over the xmas period. We gave him a break in the Lincoln game, but Silva felt he had to bring him on at half time as obviously Davies wasn't bringing what we needed. He is in dire need of a rest for a game or two, it's obvious to everyone, as eventually his form will possibly have a longer term effect on his confidence. But we have nobody in the squad who can bring what he does.

I'm not saying that Dowell is ready to compete with Gomes for a position in the team on a permanent basis. But if he was still with the squad he could be a bench option and used to give him a break late in games and to step in for him now and again, possibly in games that we would expect to dominate. Dowell doesn't have his physicality, but there is no doubt he has the footballing ability, vision and passing range that nobody else in our squad has (other than Gomes). he also has a goal threat and takes a very good set piece. let's be brutally honest here, had Dowell stepped in for Gomes over the last couple of months, other than the Burnley game the team couldn't have played much worse anyway.

It's all a moot point anyway as we've sent him out on loan.

I agree with all of that, the other thing that I would add is that Dowell has a goal in him, Gomes doesn't from what i've seen.

 

[jceverton]

I wasn’t intending to be critical of you individually. I was using your post as an example, not meaning that you personally are unreasonable just that it is that type of thing which I find difficult to get on board with. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, we all are. I made it quite clear that I was only giving mine when I said ‘in my opinion’. I certainly didn’t, as you rather melodramatically put it, ‘slam’ you.

It’s rather disingenuous to suggest that I only picked out your post and not ones saying the opposite. That’s pretty obviously because they had nothing to do with the point at hand. I have acknowledged - twice - that the argument works both ways. I have previously called people out for going OTT when criticising (including in this very thread, about this very performance) but on this occasion I was talking about what I believe to be excessive praise. I think some people say every time one of the young lads play they’re man of the match, even when they’re clearly not, and I don’t think it’s helpful to them. I don’t keep a log of all of everybody’s posts so I apologise if you’re not one of those people, but I stand by the assertion that they exist.

Fair enough, but in that case you need to make your wording a bit clearer.

 

[jceverton]

The irony of the last few pages is that if you want a player who disappears and does little in games other than score then Siggurdson's your man and he pretty much plays every match!

 

[Simon baker]

The Gomes that started for us I agree 100%. But I think it's fair to say that we haven't seen that player since the derby. Since he came into the team he has started every single premier league game, including over the xmas period. We gave him a break in the Lincoln game, but Silva felt he had to bring him on at half time as obviously Davies wasn't bringing what we needed. He is in dire need of a rest for a game or two, it's obvious to everyone, as eventually his form will possibly have a longer term effect on his confidence. But we have nobody in the squad who can bring what he does.

I'm not saying that Dowell is ready to compete with Gomes for a position in the team on a permanent basis. But if he was still with the squad he could be a bench option and used to give him a break late in games and to step in for him now and again, possibly in games that we would expect to dominate. Dowell doesn't have his physicality, but there is no doubt he has the footballing ability, vision and passing range that nobody else in our squad has (other than Gomes). he also has a goal threat and takes a very good set piece. let's be brutally honest here, had Dowell stepped in for Gomes over the last couple of months, other than the Burnley game the team couldn't have played much worse anyway.

It's all a moot point anyway as we've sent him out on loan.

I agree with most of this albeit I would add Gomes doesn’t actually create much at all. Dowell would more than likely create more

 

[Lanolin]

Fair enough, but in that case you need to make your wording a bit clearer.

Hahahahaha ok sir.

 

[Billy Dean]

I think he's at an age where he needs to leave now and join a team permanently where he's going to play every week.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I’d have him over Siggurdson. Dowell being completely invisible is still probably more useful than whatever Siggurdson does in a game.

 

[APN_EFC]

Agree with all that apart from the tracking back which he already does. He always puts a decent defensive shift in. His languid style and the fact he doesn't run around throwing himself into tackles give the false impression that he is defensively lazy, but he really isn't.

That's good then, so basically he's just not able to push Bernard and Siggy for a place