Junior

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Too lightweight in that sort of game...I found myself shouting put a fecking tackle in most of the first half.
And I have to admit , at one stage I did shout get Neville on....(THE SHAME , THE SHAME)
 

Coach said:
I seeeee........ putting on a young player enough times that he has then had "numerous top flight appearances" is not "giving youth a chance". :lol:


Was it worth it?
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Well actually Rodwell was used well and given chances in his early career, but Coleman was only played due to injuries and lack of anyone else to play right mid, thats not a club who gives youth a chance, thats every club in the world so using them as examples of a club with a policy of giving young inexperienced a chance off their own back is wrong.

And i knew you'd make some comment about Junior and our loss last night, very damon-esque.

But yeah, it was worth it. Giving a promising but inexperienced young player a start in a league cup game is fine. Its the start of giving him a chance at Everton and establishing himself as a useful squad player.

Now he needs to league appearances to build on that, over to you Moyes. Lets hope he doesnlt get stuffed back into the reserves and never seen again.
 

Against Sunderland last year we played this: Howard, Hibbert, Heitinga, Jagielka, Neville, Osman, Pienaar, Fellaini, Stracqualursi, McFadden, Gueye .

Against Liverpool at Anfield we played this: Howard, Hibbert, Distin, Jagielka, Baines, Coleman, Pienaar, Fellaini, Stracqualursi, Rodwell, Anichebe.

Both teams were weakened because of the upcoming FA cup fixtures. We pubically stated that winning these games wasn't our priority. So why start McFadden and Stracqualursi over Barkley and Vellios, or Distin over Duffy. Mcfadden and Straq were leaving that summer, playing them gave us no benefit at all. While playing the kids would help us long term.
 
Well the evidence is there - young players getting game time is there for all to see. I have shown you that in all the games mentioned by Artetafan that they took a large part. Bizzarely, you choose not to see that as them getting a chance on the pitch.

I have asked you to be specific about who and when they should have played but you have failed to answer - instead preferring to be vague. You got your wish last night and it proved disasterous.
 
Coach said:
Well the evidence is there - young players getting game time is there for all to see. I have shown you that in all the games mentioned by Artetafan that they took a large part. Bizzarely, you choose not to see that as them getting a chance on the pitch.

I have asked you to be specific about who and when they should have played but you have failed to answer - instead preferring to be vague. You got your wish last night and it proved disasterous.
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Ten minute cameos is not the same as a chance. Vellios started one game of the seven we're talking about and that's the one we won and then no starts since. He was also our top scorer at the time despite having only the one start. The question is once he'd been given that chance (and Moyes is excellent at handing out debuts to young players) and then played well why haven't those good performances been rewarded with more starts.

Barkley starts two league games in which he's our best midfielder then doesn't get another league start all season. Duffy barely puts a foot wrong in his two league starts and hasn't started a game since. He gives them a bit of a chance but no more.
 
Artetafan said:
Ten minute cameos is not the same as a chance. Vellios started one game of the seven we're talking about and that's the one we won and then no starts since. He was also our top scorer at the time despite having only the one start. The question is once he'd been given that chance (and Moyes is excellent at handing out debuts to young players) and then played well why haven't those good performances been rewarded with more starts.

Barkley starts two league games in which he's our best midfielder then doesn't get another league start all season. Duffy barely puts a foot wrong in his two league starts and hasn't started a game since. He gives them a bit of a chance but no more.
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Pretty much every young inexperienced player who has played has been due to injuries and a small squad size, exactly the same thing would happen at any club in the world under the same curcumstances. When given an actual choice : that off playing a more experienced pro or playing an inexperienced youth Moyes will go for the former pretty much every time, be it starting away at Man United or getting a late sub appearance at home to fulham.

He is too hesitant at integrating young players into the squad until he has no choice.

Coach said:
Well the evidence is there - young players getting game time is there for all to see. I have shown you that in all the games mentioned by Artetafan that they took a large part. Bizzarely, you choose not to see that as them getting a chance on the pitch.

I have asked you to be specific about who and when they should have played but you have failed to answer - instead preferring to be vague. You got your wish last night and it proved disasterous.
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I told you last night but you ignored it, there's no need to be specific and say that x player should have played in x game, its not a case of the best young player ever being held back by not being played.

Every single young inexperienced player we have at the club could have been played in games this season. But none of them did.

Until last night. And again as you will probably ignore it, its not a case of "Junior should play because he is awesome and we'll win 10-0 if he plays" its a case of Junior (and others) the club deem good enough to actually be in our reserves should be given a chance and intergrated in to the first team squad when possible in the hope of them becoming established squad players.
 

deathbyropeandglass said:
Every single young inexperienced player we have at the club could have been played in games this season. But none of them did.
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We have played 7 games this season. Anichebe, Barkley, Coleman, Duffy, Garbutt, Gueye, Junior and Oviedo have all played a part. That's 8 in the space of 7 games, which I think is a lot - especially considering the new signings we have to integrate also.
 
Coach said:
We have played 7 games this season. Anichebe, Barkley, Coleman, Duffy, Garbutt, Gueye, Junior and Oviedo have all played a part. That's 8 in the space of 7 games, which I think is a lot - especially considering the new signings we have to integrate also.
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Sorry, meant league games. Cup line ups were fine but if those players are worthy of being at this club, and then worthy of game time in the league cup as a good starting point the next step is being trusted with a few a appearances in the actual league as an actually policy of a club with a small squad and little money integrating its young inexperienced players into the first team squad.
Throwing them in when we have an injury crisis doesn't count because any club in the world does so.
 
Anichebe, Barkley, Coleman, Duffy, Gueye, McAleny, Rodwell and Vellios all appeared for us in the League last season.
 
Coach said:
Anichebe, Barkley, Coleman, Duffy, Gueye, McAleny, Rodwell and Vellios all appeared for us in the League last season.
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Not all appearances are equal. McAleny got like five minutes at the end of a match.

Anichebe, Rodwell and Coleman have actually been handled very well by Moyes. As frustrated as I've been with all three (Coleman shouldn't have got so many games at RM when he's a RB and our RBs have been weak, Anichebe looked so poor a year and a half go I thought he'd never make it and Rodwell never quite put his skills together into becoming a player) Moyes has given them a lot of games and now one earned up 12million and the other two look ready to take a regular starting spot (You can quibble that Coleman should have been playing RB more often for us if that's his position but by and large I'm not too unhappy about the way things have been handled).

Gueye too got a lot of games last year, he's started 14 games for us (all competitions), and we've had a proper look at the guy.

Barkley, Duffy, McAleny and Vellios are where my beef is. Because Moyes bought them in, they did very well, and then Moyes dropped them. It doesn't seem like good performances are being rewarded with more appearances. Barkely hasn't started a league game since blackburn last year. Duffy since the home Blackburn game and Vellios since Fulham. McFadden started the same ammount of league games as the three of them without playing half as well and without having any future at the club.
 

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