2017/18 Jonjoe Kenny

[CRIMHEAD]

I think Kenny has been overrated by some (probably because he is a local lad), and Martina has been written off too early. Both have had very limited appearances in our first team. That said, I do think Koeman is prone to selection mistakes like any manager and from what I have personally seen, I would feel far more at ease with Kenny starting tonight than Martina, and the same with the start of the league season.

Kenny has always looked solid defensively for me, with an intent to get down the wing. His crossing has looked excellent at times, but poor on other occasions which is quite common for a full back. Whenever he has been tested by an opposition winger when i've seen him though he has rarely, if ever been beaten. Martina on the other hand has looked very suspect defensively already. He did the unthinkable for a defender in that game in Belgium where he headed it down in to the path of the striker, got torn inside out on a couple of occasions last week against very poor standard opposition and again looked out of his depth with an aerial ball over his head late on.

He hasn't inspired the fanbase with confidence and I think Koeman could quite simply be wrong on this one which is frustrating. He's got it wrong with persistently playing Calvert Lewin out wide too. Calvert-Lewin can no doubt do a job for the team, but Koeman's use of him has not been the most effective for the team and he has undeservedly started ahead of some players in certain games in my opinion.

There's some truth in there, but I think the bigger reason why Kenny would,go out on loan - I'm not acknowledging that he's being sold, that's silly IMO - is that it's BETTER for the long run if he does AND he isn't a current upgrade over Holgate, Cuco, and even Davies and whatever other alternative (Besic, McCarthy, Lennon).

 

[Groucho]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coco_(folklore)

Coco is offensive to the hispanic culture. Im aware due to my spanish heritage.

El Coco is the hispanic bogeyman who eats babies.

I will never use the term Coco again when referring to clown like behaviour. Apologies if my previous use of the term has offended anybody.

However that doesn't change my opinion that Cuco is a clown. Only he can do that by putting in a series of decent performances for us. Let's hope he does, starting with tonight's game, otherwise there'll be a lot of disappointed blues by the time Christmas comes around.

We took the view of "Martinez->clown->coco the clown->coco".

Also that some people just think Cuco's name mistakenly is Coco.

 

[BillLovesRoo]

Great. Plain him into the starting lineup for Everton then!

It's a good thing that he's not a complete waste in the air, but unless he's going to get first team starts at Everton, still not sure why loaning him out is a terrible thing.

I dont necesarily think its the case of loaning him out is a terrible thing, it is more to do with we were all hoping/expecting this to be Kenny's opportunity to show he is ready for the first team.
Even with the tough games to start the season, Koeman could of had in his plans to use Kenny after the tough games to avoid any crisis in confidence. That is evidently not the case.
I love our RonKo i really do, but i do think the "he gives youth a try" is really abit of a myth. People previously saying look at Holgate, Davies, Lookman & DCL.
We all new Tom Davies was ready for the first team, remember chelsea away, bringing him on at 5-0 down, showing all the elder players up, next game at home to swansea, not even in the 16. Didnt get an opportunity in the league cup games and i remember a couple of times being fuming about seeing Cleverley in hte line up ahead of Davies. It wasent until he forced his way into the side and performed to a degree he couldnt get dropped that Koeman started talking about how he likes to give kids a go.
Holgate was back up right back as we had no one else
Lookman came in for big money, started well and then was no were to be seen for the rest of the season after a couple of quiet games, im thinking away at OT he could of been used as an example
DCL owns pictures of Koeman nude so thats how he gets game time.

You look at Pennigton- only brought in when we were having a crisis defensivly, he could of easily opted for Kenny and moved Holgate inside, but didnt.

Dowell & Kenny should be in that squad today, training with the first team lads every day and in every match day squad, but Ronnie dosent trust them at all.

As said, i love Ronnie, i like his pragmatism, i like the way he talks his mind, i like the way he pushed the board to get Schneiderlin done, but i dont think he is this pied piper type that gives the kids a fair crack of the whip

 

[Abraders]

Got it. I didn't think anyone believed that. That would be just silly.

Tbf nowhere has suggested with cinnolly that it is only going to be a loan

 

[windymiller]

There's some truth in there, but I think the bigger reason why Kenny would,go out on loan - I'm not acknowledging that he's being sold, that's silly IMO - is that it's BETTER for the long run if he does AND he isn't a current upgrade over Holgate, Cuco, and even Davies and whatever other alternative (Besic, McCarthy, Lennon).

He is, Cuco is Niasse levels of bad.

 

[Barnfred 55]

There's some truth in there, but I think the bigger reason why Kenny would,go out on loan - I'm not acknowledging that he's being sold, that's silly IMO - is that it's BETTER for the long run if he does AND he isn't a current upgrade over Holgate, Cuco, and even Davies and whatever other alternative (Besic, McCarthy, Lennon).

Couldn't agree less mate.

Kenny is by no means the finished article and I'd prefer not to have him as our first choice full back this early in his career. Had we made a decision to bring in the likes of Zabaleta for a season to cover for Seamus, I wouldn't have questioned it. But the lad is a proper full back. He has, at times, played at CB in the U23s, but his real position is right back. Holgate can do a job there defensively and is a neat footballer, but lacks the end product offensively. Cuco, from what I've seen, is just not good enough for us. I hope he proves me wrong because he looks like being first choice until Seamus gets fit. All the others you mentioned are midfielders/wingers. You may as well play Rooney at full back.

Kenny, in my opinion, IS a current upgrade on all of the players mentioned above.

 

[Papa Shango]

Well I suppose Cuco showed good flexibility when laying on that assist for Genk. His first assist in a blue shirt. Can't wait to see how many goals he scores.

I remember a similar inept attempt in a similar position with Seamus Coleman against Crystal Palace last season. In a competitive game too.

Give it time.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I remember a similar inept attempt in a similar position with Seamus Coleman against Crystal Palace last season. In a competitive game too.

Give it time.

Seamus has never been the best defender mate but he's more than made up for it with his attacking play.

Looks like we'll need to give Cuco time as he appears to be Ronnies first choice. What I've seen so far (which is admittedly very little) does not inspire me with confidence. I also accept that my judgment is probably prejudiced by my preference to see Kenny given the role.

Hopefully I have misjudged him and his performances will win me over. We'll see.

 

[murphy89]

Kenny will be a great RB but, as with Coleman in his early days, he needs to better understand the defensive side at first team level. It isn't just about bombing up the wing every game. Coleman for the first few seasons was defensively shocking. Holgate is more solid at the minute and Martina has more experience. Kenny will go out on loan this season and then be competing with Coleman next season. Exactly like we developed Coleman by sending him to Blackpool.

 

[Papa Shango]

Seamus has never been the best defender mate but he's more than made up for it with his attacking play.

Looks like we'll need to give Cuco time as he appears to be Ronnies first choice. What I've seen so far (which is admittedly very little) does not inspire me with confidence. I also accept that my judgment is probably prejudiced by my preference to see Kenny given the role.

Hopefully I have misjudged him and his performances will win me over. We'll see.

I want Kenny to play too, I think he looks boss potentially.

And I am not one to blindly trust a manager (They are human after all and even the best make mistakes) but I am willing to give him a bit of time purely because Koeman has signed him twice now so he knows what he is getting and trusts him to do a job.

I do think he is destined to be a very polarizing player regardless. Fact is, he aint Coleman. Nobody is.

 

[orchard]

I think his Mum mistakenly called him Cuco, to be frank.

We took the view of "Martinez->clown->coco the clown->coco".

Also that some people just think Cuco's name mistakenly is Coco.

 

[jceverton]

This is not true. He signed Pickford, Keane, Sandro, Klaassen and Henry. All under 24.

Who's Henry?

 

[Thomasc]

Are we not allowed to question the club in anything they do now?

In this particular instance, the two players in question were part of the England squad that won the world cup less than 2 months ago. One of them was not only the best full back but probably one of the best 3 players in the whole tournament. Neither player has been given a real opportunity to show whether they can compete in the premiership. In the few minutes they have had they did not look out of place or overawed.

So yes, if we did sell both players to Swansea as part of the deal to bring in Sigurdsson, I would seriously question the clubs judgment, especially as we're bringing in players of the quality of Cuco Martina to play in their place.

To be honest, I would find it more strange if Evertonian's didn't question such a decision.

And yes, the jury is still out with Koeman's use of young players as far as I'm concerned. But probably not for the reasons you would expect. I think he was slow to introduce Davies to the first team last season but , once he did, I also think he played him too much. I also think he possibly overplayed Lookman to begin with, but then hardly played him at all when some games were crying out for him to be introduced from the bench. I think he was wrong to bring in Pennington for such an important game against Liverpool so soon after returning from injury and in a formation he hadn't played in before. And I still can't fathom out why he insists on playing DCL out of position.

I'm not anti Koeman in any way shape or form and I understand that he does what he does as a profession and I'm just a fan. But that doesn't mean I'm going to give him, or the club for that matter, carte blanche to do whatever they want without question.

Yes of course we all are! But we have an academy there for a reason, part of which is to produce players for the first XI and if not quite up to that standard to be able to recoup some income for the club which they have heavily invested in over the years.

I guess this comes down to me having a more "leave it to the professionals" point of view. It's fine to question of course, but I would always think as they see these players day in and day out, that they are able to make a far better balanced judgement than I am on this.

 

[jceverton]

Kenny will be a great RB but, as with Coleman in his early days, he needs to better understand the defensive side at first team level. It isn't just about bombing up the wing every game. Coleman for the first few seasons was defensively shocking. Holgate is more solid at the minute and Martina has more experience. Kenny will go out on loan this season and then be competing with Coleman next season. Exactly like we developed Coleman by sending him to Blackpool.

I think your comparison is flawed. Firstly Coleman came to football very late on (around 16 yrs old if my memory is correct) so he was very raw when we signed him. He played 12 games for Blackpool. Kenny has played football since he was a young kid, he's won the U17 European Championship & U20 World Cup with England. He's already been on loan in lower leagues and played 15 games.

Perhaps the words of Coleman on Paul Cook, his manager at Sligo, are appropriate: "He made me feel like I was the best player in the League. It just makes such a difference when you have a manager who believes in you." This after his previous Sligo manager told him he didn't rate him.

 

[PeregrineT]

I guess the real reason hes being kept out of the squad is Koeman thinks Holgate is better. So the real question is, will Holgate get playing time?