Death
I'll take down dat coal powered MG, I tel u Hwat
They are not but they will defend everything wrong no matter how It drags them in the gutter just for that anyone but Trump reason.
Current Affairs Joe Biden POTUS #46
- Thread starter Ruairi77
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They are not but they will defend everything wrong no matter how It drags them in the gutter just for that anyone but Trump reason.
sdk
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Some people are actively pro-Biden. He's an old Dem pol of Watergate vintage who's soaked up the influences of the Mondale, Clinton, and Obama eras and whose natural appeal is for older, party-faithful Dems. For all the press attention to more progressive youngsters, the paradigmatic loyal Dem voter is still an aging black woman. (Older black people are also more likely to forgive him the 1994 crime bill, one of his sticking points among younger/proggier voters, as the same bill was supported by the Congressional Black Caucus and loads of their constituents at the time.) African Americans have been key to Biden's success in this campaign, and not just because he spent eight years as an enthusiastic understudy to the nation's first black president.
Still, as you imply, polling indicates that a majority of votes for him will be more anti-Trump than pro-Biden. I'm not as anti-Biden as many here but I'll still be pretending to vote for Elizabeth Warren when I cast my ballot for him. She's the one for me but he'll have to do.
BirkenheadBlue
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When the only alternative to momentarily/occasionally putting a couple of toes in the gutter is taking a headlong dive into the sewer beneath it, it's not a hard decision to make.
He always seemed to be the very centrist figure. I don't think he plays particularly well to younger, more progressive voters, but as has been acknowledged the alternative is Trump. I mean there's a false dichotomy that exists that it's Biden V Trump in such situations, but really it's a Biden V not voting. The quite detestable nature of Trump probably pushes people who aren't particualrly keen on voting for Biden to vote for him, in a manner that may not have been apparent for Hilary.
The other angle in this, is that sections of what you might call centre right republicans may vote for him, or dislike him too little to want to vote for Trump. He's a fairly innoffensive character. Obama (black) and Clinton (wife of Clinton, a woman) or Sanders (socialist) likely mean they are mor emotivated by Trump. Bidens a bit of a pickle, he's an elderly, white quite moderate man.That seems quite appealling compared to a lunatic in Trump.Apprently the Tea Party have not been as enthuastically for him as in other elections.
These are the dynamics. As I put yesterday, I think the conference season doesn't help him much. It probably re-enforced to people Biden is moderate and capable, while Trump is unrealiable and quite hateable. I don't see Trump really having the discipline to dial it down,appear a bit more restrained and pressuring Biden to take risks. It's not in his nature.
Are people defending Biden lots? I don't read every post, but it's not the impression I get. Opinion seems to be softening to him a bit, which is interesting. I don't like the guy and think he's a raping you know what, in exactly the same way Trump is.
BirkenheadBlue
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Biden's seen as being completely centrist (which is an advantage in this election for the most part) but has actually moved significantly left as the party has. He's always been a "consensus Democrat". He's obviously not Bernie or AOC, but his policies states in the election (for what little bit policy actually matters this time round) are significantly left of Obama or Hillary's
BirkenheadBlue
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Not especially. I don't hate him, but he was a long way down my list of preferences out of the Dem primary field. If I were in the US though, I'd crawl over broken glass to vote for him, simply because of the alternative.
We'e sort of heard this with Keir Starmer though haven't we? Who is now rooting out the left in the party. Likewise wasn't Biden quite supportive of segregation back in the day?
I think he's problematic for the left in the medium term, but a defeat of Trump is quite important.
sdk
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I think it's something of an inversion of the 2016 dynamic, in that many of Trump's votes were actually anti-Hillary votes. Now the Republican is the locus of antagonism and the Democrat's the alternative-with-baggage.
I don't see lots of people defending him. Most people appear to want to vote for him because he's not Trump. Thats about as far as my position would go. He seems quite a hateable man in his own right, and it's great shame Sanders didn't get to run and give people a real opportunity for hope and change, to undercut Trump. But I suppose for the Democratic establishment stopping Sanders was always going to be more of a priority than stopping Trump.
BirkenheadBlue
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I'm not sure how useful the comparisons with Starmer are, because of the specific peculiarities of this moment in the history of both the Labour Party and the US.
One thing that is common to the two is that no matter where you fall on the spectrum, you have to win to be able to govern. Bernie/Corbyn are all well and good and I agree with many many more of their policies than I disagree with... but it means diddly squat if you scare the living **** out of enough of the population that you can't get within sniffing distance of winning an election.
Voting Biden just to get Trump out is completely legitimate.
And for that matter, the same can be said for voting Labour under Starmer to get out the Tories under Johnson.
And for that matter, the same can be said for voting Labour under Starmer to get out the Tories under Johnson.
Disgruntledgoat
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My former boss who has gone full Trump over the last 6 years and views himself as a foot soldier in a war against evil Libs was Facebooking all day yesterday about Kamala Harris' marital infidelity and getting her first job in politics through patronage... self awareness, there.
Without doubt. I put that a couple of weeks back, and everything I see plays into that more and more.
Trump very successful whipped up a fever about a woman President, on the back of 8 years of a black president, and also invoked the anger towards Bill Clinton as well. This was his great strength.
I didn't think a few weeks back that same anger could stick to Biden, and I think that less now. I'm not sure he has much left to go without doing that. A fairly right of centre, old white man is not going to be seen as the same bogeyman Hilary Clinton was, or Sanders could have been.
BirkenheadBlue
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That bold part is where your argument goes off the rails. Every single available bit of data says that this would have been a much more difficult election for the Dems to win (possibly to the point of being impossible, but even if not, then significantly harder) with Bernie as the figurehead.
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