Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[Noisy noise annoys]

I think it fair to say that Hamas, an Iranian proxy, has little to no regard for the wellbeing of Palestinians or Gazans. The poor people of Gaza are caught between two horrific monsters.

Undoubtedly, they are still the lesser terrorists (is that a thing)? in this situation though. No Israel - no Hamas

Excuse the grammar!

 

[tsubaki]

I think it fair to say that Hamas, an Iranian proxy, has little to no regard for the wellbeing of Palestinians or Gazans. The poor people of Gaza are caught between two horrific monsters.

I couldn’t disagree more with this.

Hamas are not an Iranian proxy group; if they were they wouldn’t have been voted in nearly twenty years ago now and they wouldn’t have been able to govern the Gaza Strip since then.

Their legitimacy comes from their status as the Palestinian representative group that has historically been most able to get concessions and attention from the Israeli state. Violence has been much more effective in this than negotiating has been; in fact it’s quite easy to make the (somewhat flippant) argument that it’s the only language the Israeli government understands.

The people of Gaza understand, through long experience over three or four generations now, that there’s nothing good that the Israeli government is going to do for them and that only violent resistance works at dealing with them.

Hamas are the result of that, as is the sidelining of the moderate Palestinian voices.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I couldn’t disagree more with this.

Hamas are not an Iranian proxy group; if they were they wouldn’t have been voted in nearly twenty years ago now and they wouldn’t have been able to govern the Gaza Strip since then.

Their legitimacy comes from their status as the Palestinian representative group that has historically been most able to get concessions and attention from the Israeli state. Violence has been much more effective in this than negotiating has been; in fact it’s quite easy to make the (somewhat flippant) argument that it’s the only language the Israeli government understands.

The people of Gaza understand, through long experience over three or four generations now, that there’s nothing good that the Israeli government is going to do for them and that only violent resistance works at dealing with them.

Hamas are the result of that, as is the sidelining of the moderate Palestinian voices.

Bravo
Genuinely excellent post

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I couldn’t disagree more with this.

Hamas are not an Iranian proxy group; if they were they wouldn’t have been voted in nearly twenty years ago now and they wouldn’t have been able to govern the Gaza Strip since then.

Their legitimacy comes from their status as the Palestinian representative group that has historically been most able to get concessions and attention from the Israeli state. Violence has been much more effective in this than negotiating has been; in fact it’s quite easy to make the (somewhat flippant) argument that it’s the only language the Israeli government understands.

The people of Gaza understand, through long experience over three or four generations now, that there’s nothing good that the Israeli government is going to do for them and that only violent resistance works at dealing with them.

Hamas are the result of that, as is the sidelining of the moderate Palestinian voices.

They are a part if the axis of resistance that Iran has cultivated. Funded by, trained and with weapons supplied by Tehran.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

They are a part if the axis of resistance that Iran has cultivated. Funded by, trained and with weapons supplied by Tehran.

But they are the people of Palestine’s only voice

Peace and diplomacy attempts only saw Israel take more land and commit more atrocities while the world watched

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

But they are the people of Palestine’s only voice

Peace and diplomacy attempts only saw Israel take more land and commit more atrocities while the world watched

I'd dare to suggest that they do not care for the people of Palestine/Gaza.

 

[tsubaki]

They are a part if the axis of resistance that Iran has cultivated. Funded by, trained and with weapons supplied by Tehran.

They predate the formation of the axis of resistance and would be (and were) fighting Israel even if Iranian support didn’t exist.

They absolutely get support from Iran, but calling them a proxy group implies all manner of things - disposability, fakeness, being mercenaries etc - that doesn’t apply.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I'd dare to suggest that they do not care for the people of Palestine/Gaza.

Of course they do, it’s their mothers, fathers and children, however, being at war against a merciless enemy will make you do extreme things

 

[Blue 1]

Using fragmentation weapons in a place as densely populated as Gaza is pure evil.

Israeli weapons packed with shrapnel causing devastating injuries to children in Gaza, doctors say

Surgeons who worked in European and al-Aqsa hospitals describe extensive wounds caused by ‘fragmentation’ shrapnel experts say are designed to maximize casualties

www.theguardian.com

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

They predate the formation of the axis of resistance and would be (and were) fighting Israel even if Iranian support didn’t exist.

They absolutely get support from Iran, but calling them a proxy group implies all manner of things - disposability, fakeness, being mercenaries etc - that doesn’t apply.

Iran’s regional strategy is empowering allied groups military capability through funding training and weapons supply to fight proxy wars in order to extend its reach. Hamas is a key part of this strategy.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Iran’s regional strategy is empowering allied groups military capability through funding training and weapons supply to fight proxy wars in order to extend its reach. Hamas is a key part of this strategy.

But that’s not why Hamas exists - Iran’s involvement is secondary to Israel’s

No Iran - still Hamas

 

[tsubaki]

Iran’s regional strategy is empowering allied groups military capability through funding training and weapons supply to fight proxy wars in order to extend its reach. Hamas is a key part of this strategy.

Again, that is looking at it from the wrong side.

Hamas would be fighting the Israelis without any Iranian support; they are not a tool of the Iranian regime that could be picked up and put down whenever Iran wanted to do so. Don’t confuse a common interest for one state directing everything.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Again, that is looking at it from the wrong side.

Hamas would be fighting the Israelis without any Iranian support; they are not a tool of the Iranian regime that could be picked up and put down whenever Iran wanted to do so. Don’t confuse a common interest for one state directing everything.

Iran has significantly enhanced Hamas's capabilities by providing training, equipment, and financial support over the years. The integration of Iran's proxy network under the leadership of Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Quds Force has greatly strengthened Iran's "unity of fronts" strategy, making it an effective approach to encircle Israel using proxies such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad et al. Don't confuse the struggles of a people with the strategy of an enemy state against uts foe.

 

[Taifi gorm]

The centrists have entered the chat.

 

[tsubaki]

Iran has significantly enhanced Hamas's capabilities by providing training, equipment, and financial support over the years. The integration of Iran's proxy network under the leadership of Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Quds Force has greatly strengthened Iran's "unity of fronts" strategy, making it an effective approach to encircle Israel using proxies such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad et al. Don't confuse the struggles of a people with the strategy of an enemy state against uts foe.

Weapons yes, but thirty years of a Darwinian process against the IDF have made the survivors, (the most effective bits of Hamas) very highly trained. The stupid, the unlucky and the casual have mostly all been killed by now, leaving behind what is probably the most effective resistance movement in the world today.

Also a lot of their funding comes from other sources than Iran, the Qataris for example as well as the income from running Gaza.